Outbound Ops w/ Ben Salzman & Kyle Williams [Episode 721]

Ben Salzman and Kyle Williams, Principals at Dogpatch Advisors, join me on this episode.


  • Dogpatch is an advisory and research firm developing sales playbooks and processes for outbound sales. They harness the continuing explosion of data into a pipeline to help companies scale faster with higher relevance.
  • SDRs are not usually experts in operations, persuasion, copywriting, sequencing, time management, and conversion. Dogpatch offers an Outbound Ops system to help. Kyle and Ben explain an overview of the system.
  • Consolidating data from various sources allows insights rather than just observations. Kyle presents a couple of sales approaches based on sample insights.
  • Outbound Ops fits a new role. It simulates how a CEO or an experienced AE prepares decision tree before the first call with a specific account. Ben describes how the data is gathered and used to drive the content.
  • Visual Prospecting is an extension of content generation beyond the text. It is helpful because people process visuals faster than text. Dogpatch can scale this function to provide something of actual value to your prospect.
  • Dogpatch provides Outbound Ops as an asset for anyone in an organization to use to produce dynamic, relevant content that fits their situation. Ben talks about scaling self-learning plays that ‘tune’ themselves with repetition.
  • Some prospecting tactics can create a disconnect from the prospect in the funnel. The top of the funnel doesn’t help the close rate. ‘Bad results, fast’ are not ‘good results.’ Ben explains interactive discovery whiteboarding.
  • Ben talks about sales ‘experts’ who have skipped the step of having actual experience in complex enterprise sales. You can’t gain insights without the experiences of facing customers and closing deals. Andy shares some ‘filters.’
  • You can’t ‘templatize’ face-to-face interactions between a unique salesperson and a unique contact.
  • Andy writes a daily sales email, which he creates from his list of 900 potential topics he keeps on Evernote. Be curious daily to avoid the Dunning-Kruger effect. Andy finds something new online every day.
  • ABM and ABS have been around for years for big accounts. But some companies use the tools more for the sake of automation than for authenticity. If you optimize a process to achieve a target, the optimization limits you.
  • True productivity counts dollars generated per sales hour. Selling skills are still mysteries to some salespeople. Don’t demonize ‘good’ in relation to ‘excellent’; good salespeople are consistent.