In this episode, we dig deep into what challenges sales teams face today, and how to overcome them in a definitive fashion. Today’s guest is Jack Kosakowski, Global Head of B2B Social Sales Execution at Creation Agency.
The Sales Enablement Podcast with Andy Paul was formerly Accelerate! with Andy Paul.
Andy Paul 2:26
Hello and welcome to the Sales Enablement Podcast. Joining me again on the show today I’m pleased to welcome Jack Kosakowski. He’s the Global Head of b2b social sales execution. Jack, welcome back to the Sales Enablement Podcast.
Jack Kosakowski 2:41
Oh man, I love this podcast and I’m happy to be back. This is my third time.
Andy Paul 2:48
So for people who missed the first episode, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Jack Kosakowski 2:50
So, you know, a 12 years sales professional that’s been all over the map working in manufacturing, in tech. But, you know, I would say that I’m a pretty well rounded sales guy, as it is, but it’s kind of become a really passionate guy that wants to prove the model of how social, you know, integrates into the traditional sales process. And, you know, among other things, but just helping try to build a digital agency that we work with enterprise companies, big market companies, to really get the competitive advantage and understand how they can use social to their advantage to, drive revenue with their sales teams.
Andy Paul 3:48
All right, well, so let me bleed off before we get into socials. Let’s leave off. Let’s just serve a general question in your mind, because you talked to a lot of companies, you said you are very involved in this whole social evangel. So in your mind what’s the single biggest challenge that sales reps face today?
Jack Kosakowski 4:08
They don’t know how to sell. I mean, they’ve never had really good training. Yeah, I mean, it’s true, companies just in general.
Andy Paul 4:14
Not just social selling you think they just don’t know how to sell?
Jack Kosakowski 4:17
A lot of people say that the SDR is the most glorious thing that happens in sales. I would probably disagree for the most part that I think that it might be one of the worst things that happens in sales because what’s happened is you’ve got a lot of these companies. They have grown lots more sales jobs, love to fill those and what they’ve done is they literally want to shortcut the sales training piece, throw somebody on the phone, tell them to set appointments. These people are starting to advance but what happens is the sales the companies are not actually investing in sales training. And I can tell you, working and talking with Millennial sales reps every day, their number one challenge they’ve never been taught the proper way to sell, they’ve had to learn it on their own. And the good sales reps that you’re seeing these days are either seasonal, or they were younger generations that just, you know, dove into learning. I mean, you kind of figure it out on their own, there was the podcast, they read books, but it’s not the companies, the companies just aren’t giving sales reps what they need to know, what they mean in order to really sell, you know, beyond all the tools and the processes and things. So YOU think, you know, there’s just so much pressure to grow. And so I think that the bandaid and what companies think is the right way to sell more is to add more people to the bucket, right? And we’re pulling in, and unfortunately, you’re seeing really good companies die and I’m not going to name any right now that I know of, but I think it’s mainly because they’ve tried to shortcut their way into selling their product, they thought, we’ll just hire a bunch of people. And we’ll do the quality versus quantity versus quality. And it’s and it’s killing people. And nobody wants to admit that they have a sales training problem.
Andy Paul 6:13
Well, they don’t admit they have a sales problem. That’s what you’re saying. It’s not because they have a sales training problem. They’ve got a sales problem.
Jack Kosakowski 6:20
But, to me, in most cases, to me a sales problem is often a sales training problem.
Andy Paul 6:29
Right, I just like to say at the global view of their sales show, I mean, so we take the tech business, as you talked about, with the SDR, there’s been a belief that the subscription sales model, the inside sales model that that’s been growing very rapidly over the last several years is sort of the Messiah for many of these companies. If anybody’s got a decent product, we put the sales model to it, we’re going to succeed but they’re finding out that’s not the case. In fact, it seems like as far as I can based on the research reports I’m seeing is that the new sales model notwithstanding which is a perfect fit for the subscription business but it’s not moving the needle relative to overall sales performance sales productivity, number of reps making quota, success rates, arrival rate of these startups.
Jack Kosakowski 7:21
Yeah, I mean, it’s true. I think everybody’s just trying to shortcut if it’s just the digital innovation things, you know, people start to read and you got these gurus of all types and sizes. Hey, you got to do this AI and machine learning. We’ve got all these things and you know what, it’s literally going to give you the sale on a silver platter, right. It’s like, I don’t know if people are just buying into it or what but I think that everybody’s going to learn the hard way and people are already learning that. It all goes back to one thing, proper training on how you just do the basics of sales relationship building, convert good conversation. Good questions, you know, the rest of this stuff and I talked about this all the time. It’s like social selling. I hate when people talk about it like a quick fix, right? I hate when people talk about automation tools as a quick fix,the funny thing is, all that stuff only complements somebody that knows how to sell. It only gives them more tools, better tools to be even better at sales. It does not take a crappy salesperson and make them a good salesperson.
Andy Paul 8:30
Or an untrained salesperson.
Jack Kosakowski 8:33
Yeah, and I think one of the things I’m really seeing lately, maybe I’ve just been paying more attention to this because I’m a business owner, and I’m kind of dealing with my own business, but I suck at it. So I’m actually admitting something that I think is industry wide that I’ve actually been spending the time really training your sales reps just to train. So I think it comes with, you know, for me, I’m in a role where I don’t have a lot of employees, I have to do a lot of the work still running the company. So I don’t get the time that I really should spend with my sales people outside of just the sales training we do. And I think that that’s another lost art is just sales leadership is lazy and because I’m lazy and maybe other people, but sales leaders get busy. Yeah, we lose sight of the one thing that matters, and that’s the people three actually moving the needle to keep us in business.
Andy Paul 9:33
Right. So we’re really talking about coaching at that point. And this I mean, I was just interviewing somebody earlier today about this. I mean, research has been fairly clear that coaching by a sales manager of a sales rep may be the most impactful thing and best investment you can make out of anything to change performance.
Jack Kosakowski 9:53
I don’t want to put this on sales because we are a digital marketing agency. So you don’t have to Say that salespeople are only as good as the marketing that backs them. I mean, and I don’t care what you say anymore, especially the digital age, the way that the buyers are buying a little bit differently, right? Still, you still have to know how to sell. And that’s important but even more important, in the digital age you’ve got to have marketing that backs up your good salesmanship skills, right? You’ve got to be able to give people the content, and you’ve got to be able to slowly drip and stay in front of people. right time, right place, all those things. So, you know, you have to have such a full on strategy with marketing and sales, fully aligned, and all the right things in place to really be successful and go at scale. That’s why you see some companies are really good at selling. Some people companies are really good at marketing. And those are the companies you see that fail. It’s the ones that you’re really good at sales and really good at marketing. And they figured that out. That’s the long term scalability piece.
Andy Paul 11:04
Well, that really speaks to the need, especially if you’re doing an enterprise level to do your account based marketing account based selling so that you are fully integrating your sales and marketing together in a coordinated outreach to, you know, range of contacts within a company within a targeted organization.
Jack Kosakowski 11:19
Yeah, I mean, there’s just no more walking anymore, right? You know, it used to be you could, you know, buy a list and hit the hammer on the head and send it to 1000 people and five would respond and you’d have five good appointments and you have the competitive advantage tool and you sold. I don’t trust me, I’m dealing with this right now. I’m probably one of the most visible people on social media. Lots of people know me, lots of business owners. And I’ll tell you right now, nobody’s coming in just begging knocking on my door, right. So, you know, I can tell you firsthand experience, yes, I do get some inbound business, from my visibility. But, you know, no matter how good your marketing is, drawing people in, it’s done. Much harder to draw them in from marketing. But now it’s even harder to actually sell them. And that’s coming from a guy that lots of people look at me and go, Oh, yeah. Everybody knows who you are. You just have people begging at your door. No, trust me. I’ve never had to sell harder in my life then now, you know, the more visible I am. And that’s just the truth.
Andy Paul 12:20
Yeah, I mean, it’s an entry point, nothing more you start to sell.
Jack Kosakowski 12:24
Yeah, absolutely. And you know what, you still have to sell. And it’s so much harder to sell today, because of all the moving parts that buyers expect from you, right?
Andy Paul 12:38
Well, so let’s unpack that a little bit. Say it’s so much harder to sell today versus when five years ago, 10 years ago?
Jack Kosakowski 12:46
I mean customers these days, they want so much right? Not only that, there’s five, six people making a decision now. Right, it’s not like you walked in and talked to the CEO and you sold them, you know, $10,000 deal, I can’t get into a deal. I’m not every new deal now that I don’t have for people that are making the decision. And sometimes I’ve got to sell each one of them, each one of them a little bit different, right? I’m gonna have strategies around the buying committee.
Andy Paul 13:20
I was just talking to the VP of Marketing and CMO at a well known SAAS company in the valley. And earlier today, she said that on their deals that were more than six figures, six figures or more, they average guess how many touch points average in the account?
Jack Kosakowski 13:37
I wouldn’t want to know I’d be scared.
Andy Paul 13:40
Jack Kosakowski 13:46
So you know, you just bring up a good point. It’s like, you’ve got a lot of these salespeople that have no training on how to sell just a one to one to a decision maker. Now give them this environment where they’ve got to adapt. You know, I’m in sales. I was in a sales call last week, which is, I had four different personalities. I had four people with different pain points that a user I had on the phone was just sitting there, I’m like, strategically, I’ve got to talk to each one of them. And I’ve got to say, one way to this person one way to this person. And then after the call, though, this is what the kicker was, every single one of them wanted something different, right? Well, you know, the CEO, he wanted a case study, right? The IT guy wanted all the specifications on the technology that we’re going to be involved in, how did they play into their CRM? And I had the CMO. Well, that’s Sema, VP of Marketing, wanted a strategy, she had a certain way that they wanted something done and she wanted to see how we would approach it and it was just like, the amount of work after the conversation, I was just drained, the amount of work that it took, just to check these four pieces. Is a content for each individual that I didn’t even have to have money would have had to go to my team. That was a lot of work as a salesperson. And that’s how sales is evolving. It’s crazy. It’s like true art, I would say these days of communicating.
Andy Paul 15:15
Oh, you can’t sell, you can’t say that. Because, there are people that are going to their deaths, swearing that sales is a science these days. I’ve read a blog post not that long ago by a now fairly well known person in the valley saying, dude, if you still think sales is an art, you’ve lost it. It’s all science.
Jack Kosakowski 15:41
if sales is a science then somebody give me the equation because every single buyer that I talked to or every single person on my sales funnel right out, all wants something different in there, you can’t sell I can’t sell the same way to anyone anymore. There’s just no way around it. You really got to understand. But one to one more now than you ever had, in my opinion.
Andy Paul 16:04
Oh, I agree. And this is so this gets back to the show. Let’s go back to what we talked about for the beginning is that so in your mind?. How do you train raw sales reps? And I would make the case it’s not in raw sales reps, I would say sales reps in general, because they all seem to in my mind, most of them fall short in the scattered on these basic fundamental sales behaviors, relationship building, asking great questions, things we talked about.
Jack Kosakowski 16:32
So I think, you know, the first thing that has to happen is you’ve got to build the right team, right? You’ve got to build the right people. Because, sales training alone is great, but how many times have you experienced this where you just have people that think they know how to sell with nothing to back it up? Or, they just don’t have the right attitude. They’re not willing to put in the time and all that stuff. So I think it starts with people. Once you’ve got the right team in place, then it starts with bringing the right people in and figuring out what’s your strategy? What’s your process, right? How do we want to sell? How does marketing, how’s marketing going to support the way that we want to sell? How does marketing want to sell coming up with a full strategy, then you gotta build, in my opinion, you got to build a stack around that strategy. And when you bring in your sales team to do a training, you’ve got to teach them out of self first sales training, right? Which is to bring somebody in, you know, I always say, if you don’t want to do it yourself, bring in the experts to teach you how to do it. But I think the second you know, when you’re doing that, though, I think a lot of people bring in a sales trainer. But they just say teach people how to sell right, teach them how to prospect. Well, that’s great, but what’s the overall strategy and the end game? Is there technology around this process that this person is supposed to teach you on how to prospect right? So having a core understanding of what you’re trying to achieve will then allow you to go find the experts around what needs to happen to train your sales team properly. And I see a lot of this. Companies go, I have this happen to me call me and say I want such selling training. We’re looking to do a sales kickoff. I go, that’s great. Well, you know, let’s dig a little deeper, right? What’s your close rate? Well, we’re dying right now. It’s 11%? Well, I’ll tell you, I’m not the guy for you. I can’t fix closing social selling. So you know, you might have to go out and fix that piece of the pie first, which they need to probably just sell. And I’m not going to dissect their funnel and all that because that’s not my expertise, right? I tell people to go elsewhere for that. So really understanding what is it? Where are we lacking? Where do we need help, and figuring out the right person to come in and help you fix that. And doing it all in a process.
Andy Paul 18:58
So having people specialize in certain things is absolutely important.
Jack Kosakowski 19:06
Andy Paul 19:08
Yeah, I think what you described is a fairly logical process. I think my belief is and then as we look at salespeople, and I’ve sort of said this before is that to basics even more than people think, at this point in time. And I think that, that there’s some sort of sense and you alluded to it when we were talking before the show, is that people think that technology is a substitute for the basics and for the fundamental behaviors. I’ll give you a perfect example as is, one of the very basic things is reps talk to customers, and they don’t pay attention. And you know, you’re smiling when you say that, but it’s, it’s just you see it time and time and time again. And so, as I gave a workshop a couple weeks ago, does this company have ad inside sales reps, and so I asked, raise your hand if you turn off your cell phone, when you’re making outbound calls.
Jack Kosakowski 20:09
None of them do.
Andy Paul 20:11
So they’re all keeping their phone on their desk during the time where they’re making calls, and they’re wondering why they’re not tracking conversations with customers. I mean, something as simple as that, right? That’s at all, ever thought about just turning it off and putting your drawer for two hours? While you make calls in the morning? Simple. Think about how much more effective you could be on your calls if you were completely focused on the customer. Get one right and it’s a very simple one. Yeah, it never occurred to him to do so.
Jack Kosakowski 20:40
I always said like, the very basics is that companies try to feel like they always try to train the pain, right? They try to train the pain. So they tell you, okay, you gotta ask this question. Want to get this answer? If you get this answer, you’re gonna say this right? There’s always this training element that we’ve seen in sales and actually I’ve heard of well really well known trainer was listening to a course online the other day and I go, oh, they’re doing that like, Ah, so I think that there’s you know, there’s there’s new innovative ways to sell and I don’t know why I’m saying innovative ways, but like train pain, train pain, to me, it doesn’t work anymore. Like I’ve listened to salespeople in the past and like, you got that question? You know, ask that question, you know what answer you’re always gonna get, right. You always know that they’re going to give you the answer you want to hear for certain questions. And that’s the most basic thing to me is like, do you sound like every other sales person? Are you asking the same questions that every other sales rep is asking? Just the basic functionality of sales questions?
Andy Paul 21:50
So I’ve been listening to recorded phone calls made by SDRs. And to your point precisely is, there’s one rep listening to those from a pretty well known SAAS company, obviously have been trained. But that asked a question customers would give the answer as to your point that they sort of expected. And there’d be a pause while they were there writing the note down or typing it into their system. And then the SDR would say, okay, go I said, Okay, slight pause, and then asked another question, and it was clearly the next question on their list. And in some cases, the customer served, left the door open a little bit saying, I really want you to ask me a follow on question to this question. But it never occurred to the rep because it was like Okay, I got the answer. I want it so I go to the next question. But the opportunity existed there that if they had done what you know, extend their curiosity to the end. What else can you tell me about that question to the customer. They will open up a line of questions and answers that they would have dug down deep on the customer’s requirements or in a way that none of the competitors with right, he would have would have really found out something that’s a real value to the prospect instead.
Jack Kosakowski 23:13
Yeah, and I used to laugh when I used to get sales training when I was doing sales, they go dig deeper, dig deeper. Well, you know, that’s when you’re new to sales. Like, you know, I got one more layer of question. You’re deeper into this. But when you start to get really I think what happens is that really good sales reps? They dig deeper, because that’s all they know. Right? You know, they’re not happy. They’re never happy with the answer that every other sales rep is happy with. Right? I think that’s what you know what a good sales rep is, when you listen to them, or they ask questions. I can’t tell you the last time I’ve had sales training, where they’ve talked about questions I’ve worked with. I was at Amazon and we brought in a sales trainer, one of the best sales trainers in the world. I would tell you right now, he never talked about questions in a way that every other way that you were trained, right? Nobody ever talks about this depth of questions. And it would be amazing to put, I would love to do this, put five sales teams into a training just around question, ask it, right. Mm hmm. And put them through a really deep training, take five sales teams, and put them just through basic sales training, right, with everything in it. I bet the numbers and the data would show you that the simplicity of just asking the right questions, and doing deeper. The numbers would just be atrocious to back that up.
Andy Paul 24:43
Well, atrocious in a good sense. It’d be massive in a positive way. I mean, it’s like a lot of sort of the fundamental behaviors you’re talking about is that if reps really focused on one, and mastered one of them, right, if they could master asking great questions. Even if they weren’t, they’d never been good at doing a software demo. They’ll be good at some of that. Just ask great questions. And you mastered that you’ll be so much further ahead.
Jack Kosakowski 25:12
points. So I was thinking about this. And now that I’m on the other side of the sales call a lot of times because I’m running the business and barring that, it’s really opened my eyes and I’ve thought about this. And now that I’ve listened to sales reps, and I’m on the buying side, I have learned more in sales in the last year from being on the buying side than I ever was on the other side. And I’ll tell you why. Because you start to get like a pain in each when you listen to these sales reps. I mean, I’m yet to have a really good salesperson. I probably have been to 100 demos in the last year, and I can tell you, I don’t remember one. That was good. I haven’t had one sales rep pitch me at all like that.
Andy Paul 26:00
Think about that none of them are memorable to you.
Jack Kosakowski 26:03
Not one of them was memorable. And I thought to myself, in listening to all these things, I go, Wow, I used to do that, oh, I used to do that, oh, I used to do that. And you start to get an empathy for buyers, right. And now that I have this empathy for buyers, I have literally changed many things in the way that I sell. Because I caught myself going. Don’t do that. Hate that it’s done to you. So what if there was this whole shift in sales where before you could ever sell you had to buy you just spent a ton of time buying?
Andy Paul 26:37
I’m at HubSpot. Marco Barish talks about the sales acceleration formulas as they basically had new reps coming on board as part of their onboarding as they started to create their own little digital agency. Then to experience what the pains were of what their customers and I mean, it didn’t go as perhaps as far as what you’re talking about. But I mean, that was an example right? Where, at least they’re trying to. Yeah, how do we train our people to put themselves into the shoes of their customers?
Jack Kosakowski 27:05
I truly believe that beyond the training, beyond just basic sales training, what happens is sales reps today, they’ve got, you know, they’ve got one, two, all right, and they know how to sell really well. Let’s take a good sales rep. Most sales reps, you put them on, and they know how to sell right. But where the disconnect is, they don’t want to do anything but sell. So what happens is they get any longer sales processes. They get in with multiple buyers, and they’re great on the call. They might even be great at the follow up. But the problem is the follow ups are not for two weeks, right? I can’t even get the decision maker for two weeks. What is a good sales rep doing in those two weeks and what tools do they have to be valuable and to give value versus ask so that when they get back on this phone call, they’ve given value in the sales selling process. And I really think that that is where I’ve kind of fit in and team, because I might not be the best salesperson. But I’ll tell you what, I’m the best damn value add salesperson you’ll ever meet. I’m really good at figuring out ways to be super valuable to you. I’m just selling. And I know that I’ve had a lot of success doing that. So is that a silver bullet, though? Because you start to notice oh, but let’s say you’re not really good at sales.What are the tools of the digital age? And what are the competitive advantages that you can use to put value in your favor, right? Because we have so many new communication channels now. We have buyers giving us so much information about them personally, and professionally. That, to me, is an amazing thing that we can use and sell today as a valued tool for empathy. And we can go and we can help them share to our network, we can donate money into that, right? We are sales reps, the one thing that we have always been taught to do is to sell, but we’ve never been taught how to just give personal and professional business value outside of just selling somebody. And if you can mesh the two together, you’re really good at sales, but you’re even better at giving personal and business value along the way. Your life will get a lot easier. And you can actually turn this into a long term career, in my opinion, by being able to learn how to do that.
Andy Paul 29:58
I would say most sales reps don’t really think about that, or personal value they could deliver outside of the sales context, right?
Jack Kosakowski 30:09
I mean, in this noisy world of everybody trying to sell you something that’s faster, shine here and move the needle, you know, losing the needle saves you time. How do you be the one sales rep that somebody just goes to, You know what thing they have a good product for?
Andy Paul 30:26
Exactly. Right. And so here’s one of the fallacies I think that too many sellers get into is they think that the best product wins.
Jack Kosakowski 30:40
I can tell you that right when I hear that somebody’s got a relationship with one of my competitors, and it’s a really good relationship, but I know I’ve got a better product, in the back of my mind, I usually go This was probably not even worth it. Because in the end, nine out of 10 times will be a good product.
Andy Paul 31:04
I think that experience forms part of the relationship.
Jack Kosakowski 31:09
What I like to do is I like to be proactive about it. I think both sales reps are reactive and they’re selling right? I got a lead, I got a conversation. Now I’m going to ask the right questions and, you know, reactively sell them. So I think in the digital age, we have a really good opportunity as sales reps to sell proactively, you know, building a relationship with our buyers at a mass scale proactively so that we can over time build, you know, a network of people that know who we are, how we have conversations, we’ve been valuable. We haven’t asked anybody for anything. And now if we can build that network and that pipeline proactively, we can really start to use our sales win ship skills, right, which ultimately is the end game, but there’s so much more that we have to do in the front end, just knowing how to sell.
Andy Paul 32:10
So I’ve got some standard questions like I did before. When you’re on the show some different standard questions I asked, I always end the show with. So let me let me ask you this one. So in your mind, is it easier to teach a non technical person how to sell or to teach a salesperson how to sell a technical product?
Jack Kosakowski 32:51
That’s a good question. I would rather teach a technical person how to sell a product and I’ll tell you why. Because they’ll be coming from an educational stem educational point of view. I really like to have people that know something so well, that, you know, maybe they don’t know how to sell it yet. But the problem is, a lot of people that know a product really well actually do know how to sell because they’re usually so passionate about it, they, you know, just hearing their voice, they can answer all the right questions. They have no motive to sell you. They just passionately want to teach you how this is gonna really help you.
Andy Paul 33:33
Yeah, I agree with you. By the way I’ve always found it easier to teach a non technical non sales person, especially if you tell them that selling is really a service they’re providing to the customer to help them make a purchase decision. They get that they know how to serve. Okay, so here’s the next one is what’s one book, non business book, non sales book that you think every salesperson should read?
Jack Kosakowski 34:00
Leaders eat last
Andy Paul 34:05
Okay. Why do you like that one?
Jack Kosakowski 34:08
I think I just think leadership now more than ever matters. I mean, we just are, you know, the world as a whole, we’re in the last time right now. And I think that good leaders can really change the world. And I just think we need more good leaders now more than we’ve ever needed.
Andy Paul 34:27
Okay, so if you could change one thing about your business self, what would it be?
Jack Kosakowski 34:35
I wish I would have this kind of sound back, maybe this could backfire on me but I wish I would ask more for things from people in my network. I’m too good at giving. And it’s kind of like the salesperson right which is really good at selling but never gets the deal if they never asked for the business. You know, I’ve got to get better than I just got turned into a softie in my old age.
Andy Paul 35:28
Llast question for you. So do you have a favorite quotation or words of wisdom that you live by?
Jack Kosakowski 35:38
Yes, I do. We talked about that. I think we talked about this last time, but my grandfather passed away two years ago, two, two and a half years ago of cancer, and he was the absolute best salesperson that I’ve ever met in my entire life. And you know, I won’t get into why and how but he I actually have this quote up here next to Zig Ziglar. My grandmother had this quote environment at all times, and it was before you can understand and motivate anyone else, you must first understand and motivate yourself. And I think that most people are so worried about motivating everybody else. And you know, why isn’t everybody else doing this net? They just have to step back and look in the mirror and I’ll tell you what, I think sales managers would be the first people that would probably need to reference that quote.
Andy Paul 36:28
What’s your grandfather’s name?
Jack Kosakowski 36:33
Andy Paul 36:38
All right. Well, Jack, thanks for joining me today. So tell folks how they can find out more about the Cooperation Agency.
Jack Kosakowski 36:51
You can go to my website JackKosakowski.com I’ve got a ton of great content. I’ve written over the time since I’ve been a sales rep. Just connect me on twitter tweet at me or come pick me on LinkedIn, I’m probably the most active person you’ll ever meet. So, if you tweet, I tweet back.
Andy Paul 37:17
Thanks again for joining me. And thank you friends for spending time with us today. Remember to make a part of your day every day to deliberately learn something new to help you accelerate your success and an easy way to do that is to join these conversations with top business experts like my guest today Jack Kosakowski, who shared his expertise about how to accelerate the growth of your business. So thanks for joining me and until next time, this is Andy Paul. Good selling everyone. Thanks for listening to the show. If you like what you heard, and want to make sure you don’t miss any upcoming episodes, please subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or Stitcher.com for more information about today’s guests, visit my website at AndyPaul.com