Vishal Sunak is the Founder and CEO of LinkSquares. In this conversation we dive into an important (and often overlooked) topic for sales teams: Contract Lifecycle Management. We explore why it’s important to write better agreements, why companies don’t truly understand the agreements they’re signing, why that’s a problem and how to avoid it. We also get into why contract management departments are such an essential function. From both a strategic and tactical standpoint. And why too few growth companies are investing in them.
Andy Paul: Vishal, you can still hear me?
Vishal: Yeah, I can hear you.
Andy Paul: Right now. I’m nervous about that. All right. I’ll count them for five. We’ll get going. Here we go. Five, four, three, two, one, welcome to the show.
Vishal: Thanks for having me.
Andy Paul: So where have you been sheltering during all this? A pandemic?
Vishal: Just North of Boston with my wife and my two year old.
Andy Paul: Wife and two year old. So we’re precisely what town
Andy Paul: Winchester. Okay. Think I’ve been through there. So a question for you. It was, so what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned about yourself personally, during the pandemic.
Vishal: I enjoy working from home. It’s hard to it’s hard to admit that you have I’ve only known life with my work inside of an office primarily, but. I think being a founder also, I have worked at home a lot, at nights and weekends and such things to, to drive the business forward. And I actually don’t want to hate it.
Now that we’ve been doing it for six months finding mechanisms and ways to communicate and stay in touch with folks that need me and when I need information and how do we go get it. But generally I think it’s been a net positive experience. I like being around my wife and my two year old little girl too, when, steal a moment here or there.
And read a book to her or do a puzzle or something. It’s fun. It’s not so bad.
Andy Paul: Is that net positive for you or for the company or both?
Vishal: I the company has done well in a remote environment, though. It definitely took some refactoring, especially like in our sales and success teams about how they’re going to, figure out how to drive the company the way they wanted to. But yeah, I think largely net positive for all.
Andy Paul: And so do you contemplate going back or as yeah, Shopify, we’re just not going back.
Vishal: We’re already back. We optionally decided that for folks that need a better working environments that if they feel comfortable our offices available in a depersonalized rented desk type of experience. And we’ve been doing it for a couple of weeks now and it’s been. It’s been. Met with positivity for those that have gone in, and thinking about our employee base at all kinds of different ages and thinking about maybe the younger folks who got into a smaller apartment or a re a couple of roommates and maybe they thought they’d only really be home for six or seven hours.
And then thinking about a world where they’re now at home for 24 hours. And some of them have felt like it’s a breath of fresh air and others are more comfy and secure at home and don’t want to make it to our office, but we’re definitely trying to do everything to accommodate everyone in the kind of the 60 ish employees that we have.
And everyone is in different environments.
Andy Paul: What have you done physically in the offices to yeah. Set it up to make people feel safe.
Vishal: Susan’s been Boston specifically done a great job, providing guidance on kind of what the definition of safe is. Taking that advice first and foremost, with PPE available and hand sanitizing. And we got a check-in system. We’re using some cloud-based kind of tools that you can understand Desks that are available.
And and the other thing we had to do is really take one big sweeping arm across the office and depersonalize it, like remove the notion that this is my desk, it’s anyone’s desk and set it up differently and take the guidance on conference rooms. And how those are gonna work and set limits there based on the guidance.
But yeah we did all that and then try tried it out and it’s been a positive, overall positive experience, definitely seeing different efficiencies. So yeah, we like it and we’ll keep going until it makes sense or stop it, if it makes sense to stop it.
Andy Paul: And this is a Sam purely random question, but so as a CEO is what’d, you have to do differently from a liability standpoint.
Vishal: Yeah, working with our legal team and figuring out a way to. Can of do it safely. And there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of precedent in Boston itself. There are a lot of companies that are open now in the same environment. So it was easy to find. It was easy to find best practices in terms of what we do with employees and how do we message it?
How do we keep them safe? Yeah, we worked with our legal team on that, but not no heavy lift there.
Andy Paul: Okay. Good luck on that. Cause I, this is the question that a lot of companies are going to be confronting, probably had plans going back in January and that may be too optimistic perhaps given everything that’s going on outside. So tell us a little bit about linked squares and what you do.
Vishal: Yeah. We’re changing the way that companies think and work around contracts and all different types of contracts. Be it sales contracts, or partnership or marketing or NDAs or whatever it is. And we. We’re charged with the mission of creating an experience where both before a document is signed and the after a document is signed, you can gain valuable information and just overall have a better process and more efficiency to ultimately.
Champion a legal person, a person who works on a legal team at a company to remove the negative connotation that they may be a bottleneck or slow or inefficient and create suite of tools that create the suite of tools that enable them to supercharge and drive their business forward.
Andy Paul: Now at the same time, is this a collaboration based tool as well? So that, yeah, for sales person, yeah. Trying to close the deal that they collaborate on this document with the customer.
Vishal: Yeah we think of collaboration internal today and we have two products. One is a pre signature product that’s called finalize. And finalize is really built around kind of speed of review amongst the company speed of review in collaboration. Yeah. To drive the outcome that ultimately means a document can be signed with greater efficiency, greater visibility self-service type of actions that enable folks who use things like approved templates when drafting documents and then managing the process of.
Receiving red lines receiving third party paper. Yeah so we look at collaboration inside the company. First and foremost,
Andy Paul: One thing that you, you talk about in, on your website, is that scientists right? Better contracts faster. So terms like that always make me want to dig in. So what’s a better contract.
Vishal: Yeah, better. A better contract is one that maybe it started from an approved template. So you use the right version. That’s already better than a contract that. You accidentally sent out the wrong version. That was, two revisions ago. Better contract is a contract that had buy-in from your head of information security.
If you were buying a tool, a product, a vendor product that is connecting to your customer data and. Creating, I don’t know, analytics or something like that. And you have the buy-in from someone who could vet that a contract and give their seal of approval on it. A better contract is also one that you can look back historically easily find, where things deviated and changed a better contract is one that The people who run the company, run these contract creation, negotiations, execution, and then all the way through kind of obligation and understanding what was actually agreed to can have access to that information.
So it’s really a better contract starts with how you create it, but it ends with how you manage it and manage to the obligation and the risk that’s inside. It.
Andy Paul: No for the most part. Yeah, smaller tech companies, startups don’t have legal departments, but so who are you selling to? I suggest to companies that have legal departments or is it companies have contract management departments? Who’s the buyer within your
Vishal: Yeah, pretty good signal that you’re a company that’s achieved. A level in which you’ve invested in a senior type of position, like through a general counsel or chief legal officer that’s a pretty good indication that you could be a good fit. And you’ve probably reached the kind of operational scale where it made sense to bring someone like that in, but we do often see, smaller companies that have a CFO who is charged with taking this under the wing as well.
And so that also creates good opportunities because CFOs generally don’t come up through contract negotiation, they came up through accounting or FP and a, or something else. And so how can we lend ourselves to be useful to both.
Andy Paul: Yeah. As I serve, looking into what you’re doing and thinking about us, it bring back a point that I’ve talked about fairly frequently, which is I think essentially smaller companies scaling quickly. And so on one of the, especially if they sell more complex stuff, So it’s not a transactional contract, it’s a contract that those could be back and forth with the buyer.
And so on is really missed the bet, not having a contract management function in their company. You either, they outsource that to a legal firm or to your point, the CFO becomes the quote unquote expert, or maybe in the CRO or somebody. And I’ve on companies. I worked for Good senior levels that had this contract management function.
Boy got through contracts much more efficiently took, say I speak from a sales perspective, take sales largely out of the loop of negotiating contracts, managing contracts managing. It’s just I just interested in your experience because that’s to me, that’s such a strategic position.
I see. So few companies doing it, I think in part, because. Sales thinks swell and pay a word. We’re all great contract negotiators. And it’s no, you’re not much better people to do it than you. I just wondering what you’re seeing out there.
Vishal: Yeah. It really comes down to like why can’t a company easily invest in a better way of working. Is it a financial constraint? Probably not. If you have like a law firm that’s already charged to help you. And
Andy Paul: $800 an hour for something
Vishal: Already there, you’ve already established a relationship where they’re in a position to help you is it more like there’s a perception that if it goes into like the legal or a contract or contract review, dark hole, I’ll never see it again.
Or I won’t see it again at the timeframe that I need. So expectations are not set. And so there’s not enough information about need this contract now versus everyone saying that versus which ones actually should be prioritized and how, and then managing the ongoing backlog of requests.
And so why don’t companies invest in it is because there’s a perception of all these things, right? Like that kind of negatively impact the. The hesitation. And sorry, enables the hesitation, but it’s easier to accept all on a document, that has changes than it.
Then ask for guidance, but we all know that’s not the right way to work. And yeah that’s a kind of an interesting paradigm, especially in the sales. The sales world now, to the extent that you can prove to your CRO with a great relationship with your general counsel or your contracts team, or even the CFO who’s using outside counsel to help them.
Don’t worry. I got you. Everything will be done. It will be done timely. I won’t let you down. We’ll make all these contracts, winners, and
I’ll make all these, we’ll make all these contracts, winners. And how do we. How do we build software that can make that possible? That’s what I get excited about.
Andy Paul: And so is that part of the future as what you’re looking at us as. Yeah. Yeah. You do pre signature with finalized, but as you said, it’s an internal thing is how do you then involve customers in a collaborative effort that facilitates negotiation?
Vishal: Yeah. The tool that I think will continue to remain to be the most important tool for that is Microsoft word. And to the extent that Microsoft word, Hey, this is happening. This is what a million man hours of time has gone into building Microsoft word. No one will ever be throwing that. And to the extent that you can play in and around Microsoft word make making that kind of transfer of a new version, seamless.
I think that’s where the greatest efficiency gains come. I think the change of behavior away from Microsoft word, though, we could gain more efficiency is just too hard and that too many companies have tried and failed. That’s how we look at the world. Is that a Microsoft word? File will remain to be opened in Microsoft word forever.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I was just thinking that, so your second product you do, I finalize on you have analyzed, which you. It says powered by AI to help you understand what’s in your agreements or the data extraction, full tech search, but I’m thinking okay. If you look at the trends within sales, so one of the big things that come up in a revenue operations context is, or enablement context is yeah.
How do I provide real time? Guidance to the seller so that we’re in the moment interacting with a prospective buyer that we can provide guidance. There’s guided selling that’s the term that’s out there. And I was thinking Josh, in a negotiation standpoint, it seems like that would.
Make a lot of sense, right? If you were actually negotiating with prospect to buyer for, a contract of certain sorts, having that type of tool so that you actually, yeah. You’re collaborating on development of, but you’re also using the power of all the data that you’ve had in the past or the contracts you’ve done to help you do it better.
Vishal: Yeah, that’s ultimately where the company heads, if you had a thousand master service agreements with all your customers and, the patterns and the pattern matching of things you’ve agreed to and things that are gone out of Vogue and, in terms of legal language and things that you’re consistently agreeing to limitation of liability cap, like damages cap, right? Have you done 10 X before? No, we’ve never done it. Done five X. Have you done five X, infrequently? What, is it more like one X? Yeah, that’s the normal, and so you can build out this kind of intelligence playbook where like you’re using historical data to help drive.
You know your future. And that’s what kinda gets me most excited about, we started the company on the AI journey, post signature, where, we’re not even dealing with Microsoft word documents, we’re dealing with PDFs and we’re dealing with mostly scanned PDFs, which is, what was.
The way instill is largely the way the documents get signed. And so how do you get, how do you get insights out of documents that you couldn’t search for? The last five years? Cause it’s been a locked document, and the value that can be added there, but then the value that comes through.
Through insights and benchmarking to especially drive like smarter decision making. Like I see it all the time. Actually. It’s the end of the month. We’re probably negotiating 11 contracts right now. Simultaneously. If I were to Cal I see a red line with termination for convenience. Come in. No, this one, hard.
No, we have a rule against their right hard, no termination for convenience, but maybe if I didn’t know. Could I go and look up how many times I’ve ever done it. Okay. I’ve done it 25 times in a thousand docs. And these were all, these are the conditions in which we said yes to it. This is not the condition, so it’s really easy, I should say no.
And that’s a crude example of kind of the power of having historical context. And then what gets us excited about the space.
Andy Paul: Yeah I would take it even further and say, okay hang on. Combine it with the data I’m driving from Salesforce and say, or CRM, whatever you’re using, but we’ll say Salesforce and say, okay. Yeah. In those contracts where I gave termination for convenience clause, let’s say, or you’ll have allowed a higher coverage on limitation of liability.
I did a five X instead of a one time, the value of the contract What happened? Yeah. How did that correlate to retention rate and renewals and total contract value? All that information, it seems like it’d be hugely valuable to have in the hands, not only of the sellers, but also whoever is actually negotiating the contract.
Vishal: Yeah. And then if you continue to draw the line and expand and zoom out what was their MPS like over time? Did it make them happier? Did they stick around and be a customer because they found that to be valuable, and how did the whole experience go when interacting with you?
Yeah, I think it’s still largely like a frontier type market and that’s how I think about it. We’re just beginning now to, to build reliable, accurate AI systems at scale that can actually. Gather the data, what comes next? That’s the foundation, what comes next with insights and recommendations and, true wisdom is something that gets me out of bed every day to go solve.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I’m inferring from a sales perspective and I’m a big advocate that salespeople should not be negotiating contracts. But if, and I’ll just my own experience as a company, as a workforce startups that became very successful scaled more quickly by getting sales out of the middle of contracts and having professional contract managers, contractual professional contract negotiators mat lawyers, necessarily, except for the most complex ones, perhaps.
But yeah, my workbook professional contract managers are great negotiators. They weren’t lawyers, but hugely experienced. They understood the issues. And if you’re trying to scale a sales organization, get the salespeople out of that business. And the more we can harness the power of the technology to help us do that.
Yeah. Yeah, things would be much better. I know sales has such a personal stake and they all, every Salesforce and things that are great negotiator or a large fraction do, and they actually don’t realize they’re actually really quite bad at it.
Vishal: Yeah. It kinda, it comes back to do a trust that, that legal can get it done. Can you make my timeline and expectations? Can you partner with me on it? Can we collaborate internally? Can we make it a win-win so that I get this, ultimately we both want the same thing. We both want to sign a document signed.
That is both good for the seller and good for the company. And so if we always lends, what’s good for the seller and good for the company together, we’re both operating in the same viewpoint. And I think that’s when that’s, when the best to your point, companies can get made when they’re scaling and they’re growing quickly where that handoff and that, that pass back and forth.
Can be enabled and it, and software can enable it. And to the extent that people invest in them and see the value in a better way to work than accepting all on a Microsoft word, red lines and saying, I read it and I’m fine with it. You can probably help your company out for the long-term right.
And think about what’s best for people’s quotas and their selling capability, but also what’s best for the company. And that’s how we always look at it.
Andy Paul: Yeah. Yeah, multifaceted question one is, again, if you listen to the show, I’m a big advocate of getting rid of quotas other ways to measure that more successful to sellers, but also then you don’t have this. Conflict necessarily up end of the month. It was like, yeah, we’ve got the pressure to negotiate as you’ve talked about.
And you’ve got 11 contracts you’re trying to negotiate right now. And the last three days of the business month and yeah, how’s that compromise your decision, okay.
Vishal: Yeah. Luckily as a founder of a legal tech company, I have the joy of negotiating against general contract general councils all the time. So I’ve seen everything. I’ve read everything. I’ve seen every kind of document that there is. I’ve never compromise on it ever, even if it takes another hour, if it takes another revision and never compromise on it.
Cause I know. The gain that you get in a particular month, to achieve something like artificial, like we’re trying to deliver a number in a particular quarter or month. It’s not the game that you want about positioning the company long-term right. And doing what’s best to safely, collect a really, I’m in build a relationship with another company that we both can operate in solid ground where, it’s not a risky contract because these things you’ll pay for eventually.
Someone will pay for it, it may not be the frontline people, but someone will pay for it. You’ll pay for it with, Oh, there’s a cure default that, I’m issuing you a cure and you have to cure this part of the app that. I think is in, in violation of the warranty or something like that.
And then it’s didn’t understand what cure men and the cure period. And I didn’t understand you’re issuing me a cure and then you can terminate the agreement and then everyone’s screwed. And also like investors and, if you’re a company that’s positioned to, to take on investment or be sold one day, you’ll pay for all these sins one day in the future.
If it’s not from, like a termination of a contract, a single appoint, you’ll pay for it in aggregate with bad decision
Andy Paul: if you’re being acquired and they go through your contracts and say, Oh yeah, this is a problem. We don’t wanna assume this liability.
Vishal: So taking that out, taking that friction point out where it’s I’m trying to do what I’m trying to do. I don’t care what’s best for the company to the extent where you can make it easy to do what’s best for both folks involved on both sides with the company and the seller. That’s a win.
Andy Paul: Yeah. And obviously template agreements that can be easily modified. So on as a great way to do it. And just FaceTime as idea of being able to. Correlate it to sales results or revenue numbers and say, okay, yeah, if we’ve given on this term, four times in the past in order to get this deal and get similar type deals and yeah, these deals tend to turn more frequently when we do that.
So we’re better off not giving in on that deal. Yes, we may not. Hit the number of this month, but in the longterm, yeah. We’re going to do better by finding customers that we don’t need it. And I do think that’s, that is a great use of data within the contract framework to say, okay, yeah, how’s this actually affect things.
How does how’s it, how have they gone on and performed? Because I, my personal experience and we think from, it’s all anecdotal, but is dead. A lot of times. Some of the buyers that were the most difficult on some really obscure terms were the worst customers. They’re just difficult to deal with after the fact.
Yeah, I ever won one huge agreement. I was negotiating with the customer with my general counsel, but yeah, the customer is just hung up on something in our quality standards guide. Quality control standards guys. We are ISO 9,000 certified at 9,001 certified. And actually we had a higher we sold similar customers.
So we were ranked tire by those similar customers as a vendor quality vendor than they were. But yeah, they were gonna, they’re gonna fall on their sword on this one. And yeah, it just turned out to be a prob problematic relationship. You can learn a lot through the negotiation.
Vishal: Oh, yeah, you definitely learn a lot about, about a company and how they treat you when you’re negotiating against them.
Andy Paul: Yeah, you needed to have more and more systems like yours being brought into play that are standardized things. Then to some degree you begin to. Reduce, I think the amount of negotiation that takes place, it’s always been my experience that the more standardized the contract and agreement is that, and the more you stand on it, as you said, Hey, there’s some terms we just had, this is the agreement we don’t negotiate on.
That actually helps things go faster.
Vishal: And I think that’s the greatest support that a legal function and contracts function can provide. So like a revenue organization is like reflecting on places of a terms of service that are constantly getting negotiated. You’re constantly bending on. It’s like, why don’t you just make the thing that you’re agreeing to in negotiation the standard and start from there.
If you’re already agreeing to it. One-off yeah. There’s a half a chance that. Someone will take a default versus default kind of language versus negotiate it. But to the extent where you can just say, Hey, you know what, we’ve been comfortable with this 50 times. Why don’t we just make this the standard?
And then we can all see the headache of seeing it as another red line for the next 500 deals that we do. And I think the greatest kind of way. And it’s really hard to do because. You’re basically asking for like non-standard language to drive a decision to make it your standard language is like really hard to do.
That’s one of the things that you can do in our AI products is understand like the non-standard parts of it and then drive it
Andy Paul: Your analyze product?
Vishal: In our analyze product. Yeah. And drive that kind of outcome where you can have a reflective moment, like six months into the year okay, how many times has this term been negotiated?
Oh, it’s been actually been negotiated a lot and here’s all the ways that we’ve negotiated it. Let’s just make this the standard. And then we can save ourselves a headache the next time that someone strikes it. So I think that’s like really fascinating about how.
Andy Paul: Yeah. If you can use your data from your CRM system and find out that actually, we really didn’t want to give on that because every time we gave on it, Yeah, it caused some other problems that had some impact on revenue.
Vishal: There you go.
Andy Paul: That too. It’s Hey, may we’re not finding the right fit for our system because they may, we’re calling in to smaller companies or to bigger companies or something that, this always becomes an issue.
Vishal: Yeah. And I th I think that’s kind fascinating second order type analysis is we know that like price and discounting impacts, value and usage and kind of perception. How does that relate to a terms of service when someone is making outlandish demands and you’re agreeing to it?
Is it having a negative impact or is having a positive impact? I think that’s really fascinating.
Andy Paul: Yeah, and I think oftentimes it’s a negative impact. You may get the deal, but it may be a deal that you regret getting. Yeah, that’s sales people don’t think about that perspective often enough as and I, that’s a phrase I love to use is just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should and it applies to certain deals you close, just because you can close them.
Doesn’t mean you should. And oftentimes contract negotiations, unfortunately coming later in the day are one of the ways that you learn that. And so I would think and hope that. One of the ways customers are using your customers are using the system is get the agreements out there much earlier in the process, the sales process.
Vishal: Yeah, and that’s like a tried and true thing is it’s if you believe that. The conversation around a terms of service can happen earlier and earlier in the sales process. And you’re confident in sending, the most approved kind of terms of service earlier to start having that conversation.
It’s only going to net. The outcome that you want in a faster timeline than if you waited to the last moment. And that’s core to my CRO, Steve, and his strategy. He’s got to negotiate against the ultimate negotiators, or there are buyers, right? The general councils. And so it’s if there’s a indication that it could get serious into a buying process, it’s like, who’s going to review the terms where you review it.
Can we pass it off to someone on your team? Can we get this out ahead? Waiting to the last moment. Cause I know at the ends of months and quarters, they themselves are working on their company’s contracts for their customers to make their engine go. And so how can we work on this efficiently?
Where you can buy software and buy ours. So yeah, it’s believe it or not sales folks the the legal team is here to help you if it’s done correctly.
Andy Paul: Yeah, I think, but that’s, I didn’t mean to laugh at it because when you have, if you’re a Salesforce and you have a legal team, in-house legal team, we’re having in-house contracts team. If you’re not. Trying to make them your best friend instead of resisting it. If you’re not trying to make them your best friend to take advantage, to leverage their expertise in order to help you negotiate better contracts faster so that you can spend your time doing what you’re best at, which is not negotiating, which is hopefully selling.
Yeah. If you’re not, if you’re not taking that step, if you’re in sales, you’ve got a legal department, you’ve got a contract team. If you’re not leveraging it. Yeah you’re not helping yourself at all. So last thing I wanted to talk about, cause I come across this in one of your blog posts on your site, and I hadn’t been paying attention to this side.
I should have been as is this European court of justice ruling, the Schrems to
Andy Paul: Ruling pretty significant for people doing business in Europe. It says that struck down the privacy shield standard allowed businesses move data between the United States and the EU without running now cross purposes with EU privacy law.
It seems like a lot of companies probably have to be rewriting code
Andy Paul: We are our own country out here. Just make sure people understand that fifth largest economy in the world. Just FYI. Okay, go
Vishal: Yeah, there you go. There you go. And yeah, it’s a trend, right? It’s a trend and I think. There are other States that are trying to follow suit, I think with California as well. We’re seeing Brazil take a pretty hard stance on it too. That’s kinda like the latest thing that’s been on the radar.
It’s like following suit around privacy and yet it’s what are the foundations of contracts? How are they negotiated historically? Did you agree that, privacy shield will be maintained between the two. Company a would maintain their privacy shield.
And if they didn’t, there was a right to terminate a company B that’s like a major thing. And again, like coming back to like, how are you going to solve this problem? If you have 10,000 customer agreements, and surely reading all of them or paying your outside counsel $800 an hour, just can’t be the best way to do it.
Andy Paul: So with your system, could you. On a blanket basis go across and create updated agreements with this specific clause inserted in it.
Vishal: Taking a step back, like, all right, so you got 10,000 customer agreements. They may or may not have the language. Okay. So you set them up inside analyze or post signature product. What do you get access to immediately? You can run your own search queries, right? You can type in privacy shield and see how many.
How many contracts have it mentioned. And immediately started focusing efforts on all of these have to be amended immediately, right? The creation of an amendment that’s like a smart legal person can do them, maybe five minutes, to amend the contract to take that out.
Or nullify that kind of whatever contractual language.
Andy Paul: But you don’t want to do it 10,000 times though.
Vishal: Yeah you may not want to, you may want to do it 10,000 times. We’re really focusing on in your existing contracts. Can you identify the ones that are at risk first and foremost? Cause you got to get to put a bandaid on this as fast as you can. And then the other way to do it is to get access to.
An algorithm that can extract like a whole paragraph. Data protection paragraph, or data privacy paragraph that lives even unique to your contracts and the way you wrote it. And that algorithmic extraction technology can serve you into writing a better paragraph two and guiding the decision making.
That’s kinda like the world that we play in. W we are then not robotically reaching out and saying, it’s time for you to sign a new document. There’s plenty of systems that can do that. We were really focused on, can I get you access to the needles in the haystack you need to go find and and do it quickly.
Andy Paul: Interesting. All right. Vishal, thank you very much for joining us on the show.
Vishal: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Andy Paul: And if people want to find out more about linked squares, how can they do that?
Vishal: Check us out on LinkedIn. We’re pretty entertaining. And we’d love to hear from you.
Andy Paul: All right. Good. Vishal, thank you very much.