Building Your Brand on LinkedIn, with Tara Horstmeyer [Episode 849]

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Tara Horstmeyer is currently the Director of Partner Success at Gravy. In this episode we have an extended conversation about building your personal brand on LinkedIn. Tara takes us through her journey over the past 10 months in her mission to use LinkedIn to share more, give more, engage more, learn more and grow more. Plus, we dig into the impact this engagement has had for Gravy and for her growth as a manager. (She’s killing it. She’s already been promoted twice so far this year.)

Episode Transcript

Andy Paul: Tara. Welcome to the show.

Tara Horstmeyer: Hey, thanks for having me, Andy.

Andy Paul: Where have you been hanging out during all the good times of the pandemic?

Tara Horstmeyer: Mostly at my home up here just a little bit North of Atlanta, we call it OTP as an outside the perimeter.

Andy Paul: And what, which town you said?

Tara Horstmeyer: Cumming,

Andy Paul: coming Georgia.

Okay. I’ve been through there. I spent a lot of time, like Duluth and Alfaretta and so on. up in that Northern area, and you said you it’s a birthday in your home today.

Tara Horstmeyer: It is. And the funny thing is my oldest is 12 today and, I actually have a big birthday tomorrow, so we are only about an hour and a half apart from each other, but we each have our own day, so that it’s celebration and it’s a big one.

Andy Paul: So well, can we ask which big one it is?

Tara Horstmeyer: we’re, it’s the big four zero.

Andy Paul: Oh, wow. Look at you. You made it.

Tara Horstmeyer: I made it somehow I may not look the same, I made it.

Andy Paul: That’s good. That’s exciting. Forty. Of curse I can’t remember. My 40th birthday was so long ago, but, it’s good. That’s good. That’s good. 40. I like that. And a twelve-year-old so you’ve got two other sons you said?

Tara Horstmeyer: Yes. So we’ve got 12, nine and two and a half. Okay.

Andy Paul: Now are they actually going back to school or is it still homeschooling?

Tara Horstmeyer: Yes. So I’m in the, in the County, we are close to Atlanta, but thankfully I think our rate honestly has been less than 1% in Forsyth County. So our kids are back in school or at least we have the option. Yeah. and everybody has made the choice for themselves and what’s best for them and their family.

And what was best for us is to, send the older two back to in-person school. In middle school, our oldest is sixth grade and then, our middle is in fourth grade. And then of course the toddler, has been going to daycare actually since May and doing great. so far so good every day we just kinda keep our fingers crossed.

Andy Paul: I was going to say it. So as parents, because as parents, the kids bring home stuff all the time that they are asymptomatic and then the next day you’re down for the count. So how are you handling that psychologically and physically?

Tara Horstmeyer: We literally are just taking it one day at a time. I think because my father was a pediatrician, so for just being around, obviously this is different, but being around that kind of, just illnesses in life and specifically children, we just have the, Hey. You know what? We’re just going to do everything we can to stay healthy. As my kids I’m like crazy. Like the second they walk in, I’m like, don’t touch anything.

Andy Paul: Wash your hands. Yes.

Tara Horstmeyer: Your hands right now, I’ll put sticky notes and I’m like right there. So we, we do the best we can. I think every single parent and every single, just everybody right now, you absolutely do the best you can.

But at the same time, just, we’ve got to keep doing what we feel works for us and take it. All of those precautions, mentally as well as physically in to play as we make decisions. And I’m also one of those people to where Hey, what we feel is best today may not be what we feel is best tomorrow. If things change, then you know, we’ll change and we’ll adapt. And, if we decide, Hey, we need to go to virtual at any point, or the school decides like we are so like, Hey, we’re just gonna roll with it. And, this is a year unlike any other, so that’s okay. If we need to make plans just.

Andy Paul: Yeah. it’s sort of year, like last year, but yeah, it will have its own directory yeah. Now let me ask you this as well a working mom and mother of three boys who had to be schooled at home. How’d you guys handle that? You’re running a sales team and running, a team of three.

Tara Horstmeyer: Oh, wow. Now it was, I guess how we handled it is very imperfectly and with as much grace and forgiveness for each other, as we could give. And, it’s one of those things where  all of our lines just changed on a dime and, being adaptable was just the way it was. So the first Monday after it was okay, everybody’s home, school’s locked down, we’re virtual, back in March.

And it was very obvious from the beginning that it’s okay, there’s going to be a lot of clunkiness. The e-learning platform was down. There was tears, there was freaking out, there was people needing something constantly. And, I think for me, it was just a decision of okay, I’m going to show up right where I need to be. And it was literally a practice in presence and I did not nail it perfectly, but when I decided I was like, okay, I’ve got to be present with my 12 year old because he needs this specific. And then, so my nine-year-old is going to have to wait. And the two year olds have to wait and just going through who needed me most at that moment throughout the day was really all I could and, just truly lean on each other for it. My blessing was that I did have a twelve-year-old who could rock out his stuff. He’s very much a go getter. Wanted to finish things early. So he was finished with enough time to help take care of the two year old and take him on walks and really just be our live-in babysitter for two months.

Nope.

Andy Paul: Okay, so here’s the question for you then is what did you take from, the lessons learned from managing what your kids are going through and apply it to managing your team virtually.

Tara Horstmeyer: That’s such a good question. I think essentially you could almost replace a 12 year old with a 20 something year old.

Andy Paul: That’s what, I didn’t want to say it. I wanted you to say it. I didn’t want to say it, but go ahead. Yes.

Tara Horstmeyer: It’s like everybody’s got needs and everybody was needs different things at different times. And so I think when you just have limited energy and limited capacity and limited just bandwidth, that prioritization for any leader, any manager is going to have to be because it’s so tempting to just put out fires as they come or answer, what is just the most urgent, but maybe not the most important. And so I think as we all think through just our lives and how we want to. I mean go through them and tackle things inappropriate order, making sure that, Hey, yes, there are things that are urgent, but what’s important and make something that for myself, just for my sanity, but also for everybody I was leading or I’m just working alongside and working with it. Just really keeping that focus of, Hey, is this the most important thing or is this just, an urgent fire that really needs to put it? Or is it just something that we think is a fire, and then, appropriately handling it that way.

Andy Paul: Yeah, they will. Our grid of urgency versus important and so on. Yeah, absolutely. Our quadrants, first, so for people who aren’t familiar with gravy, tell us what you do.

Tara Horstmeyer: Yeah. So at gravy as a whole, we are the go-to resource, really for personalized payment recovery at scale for businesses who have a recurring revenue models and

Andy Paul: So tell us what that means. Precisely.

Tara Horstmeyer: So it means Hey, let’s say that you are a SaaS business with a subscription model. You know that every month you’ve got churn and there are customers there are users who are essentially going out the back door with field payments, and it’s not necessarily something that anybody thinks about on the regular, but we do.

So we think about, Hey, the second that payment fails, some people have Dunning or they’ll have software and they’ll do a retry or they’ll do an email sequence. Well Gravy really completely takes that off of our client’s plates so that they don’t think about it. And the way we approach this and the personalized, empathetic human one-to-one way.

Andy Paul: You send the bone breakers to the door.

Tara Horstmeyer: Yes! No, of course, we send caring empathetic people, because nobody wants to talk about failed payments, especially when you’re trying to grow your business and also, go essentially go after these failed payments, these customers, these users who are turning, but the way we do it and it’s really our secret sauce, so to speak is because, we know that really it’s such an issue and it’s so important to keep your customers and keep your users engaged. So it’s obviously with speed and with effectiveness, but it’s really the human solution to the problem that we put on it and the results are just wild. You know, go figure. But, for us, it’s really worked and we have clients who essentially look at us as like a backend sales team, as well as a retention team and of course, revenue recovery.

Andy Paul: Well, yeah, so that’s a question I was wondering is, so how often in the course of, revenue quote, unquote revenue recovery, I won’t say in collections, do you. Yeah, do you then get the customer to sign up again?

Tara Horstmeyer: Yeah. So it’s wild cause in this, in kind of what we do, and that’s why we are very different from collection. So collection is more of like old debt or bad debt or past due debt that kind of thing, our services really toward those credit cards that just decline and there’s over a hundred reasons why. Yes, it could be, Hey, you’ve got a new card number, but there’s, insufficient funds. There’s just so many reasons that decline. but we are so brand specific with our clients that you don’t even know Gravy exists. So people could be listening and actually have, Gravy could have reached out and been like, wow, that was a really nice person saying, Hey, I’m here to help you. We’re more like a customer service arm of our clients. We come in with just a helpful approach of Hey, let’s get you back on. I know you love this service. and and. Resell it in a way that’s wow, not only am I back in the fold, in my getting my payment back online. But that was such a great experience that now I’m even more bonded to the brand to begin with.

So seamless, that person was so helpful and, just made that experience, not sticky, and not icky and, frustrating because also want to be back into whatever you’ve already paid for essentially.

Andy Paul: Interesting. Very interesting. So your SDR manager for the rest of our growth manager. So is there a difference between SDR growth manager and SDR manager?

Tara Horstmeyer: Not so much, I think I like the term because, I essentially, get the job of not just managing and I feel like a lot of people are just different than like managing and leading. But really to me, it just reminds me everyday that, I’m in charge, not of just metrics and quota, but really their growth and their individual team, individual contribution as team members.

And so I’ve really loved that kind of growth piece to it because it forces me honestly, to look at the role and look at just my team differently. So I love that part.

Andy Paul: How do you sit with your individual contributors and say, Hey, let’s define what your growth goal is and how do we put together a plan to help you get there?

Tara Horstmeyer: So it’s, easily one of my favorite things that I get to do, and it actually starts before, at least for our last two team members before they even started, I was able to get an hour with them relationally and just ask, give them essentially a little bit of homework before they even started and said, Hey, once you have a little bit more bearings and context, talk through what this looks like for you.

And, before you even begin, what are your dreams? What are your aspirations? What is a great manager to you? What’s a great leader. Tell me about someone who has really developed you in the past and them. Great. And essentially, how do you like to be led? And so that’s not like, where do you want to be in 30, 60, 90, but at the time I’m more instead of like, where do you want to go? What role do you want it? Who do you want to become? What are some of those characteristics that I want molded in me and that I really see leading to more opportunity, whether that’s in the role currently or potentially down the road. And the benefit of being a startup, it’s opportunities literally can pop up tomorrow that were not here yesterday.

Andy Paul: But I think there’s, yeah, I think there’s also something to what you’re doing and in the sense that I think what we too infrequently do with new hires or people at any level really is what you’re doing. It’s yeah. It’s what your dreams are. But I heard or read some, I phrase this in a way I really liked us is so what’s the lifestyle you envision for yourself? Because when you define it in the context of lifestyle, then, and you’d have to get pragmatic about, okay, cool. So what are the steps to get from where you are to where you want to be in terms of the type of life you want to lead and put it in that term I think is something much more powerful instead of what job do you want to have and how much money do you want to make? Which could be an outgrowth of lifestyle, but if you won’t be flying on private jets all the time, but, Yeah, I think it’s so important. It’s so rarely done. What you’re really talking about to me is mentoring somebody.

Tara Horstmeyer: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s, honestly I think where my passion for this birthed and I absolutely love, just taking someone from A to B, but then letting them see, Hey, there’s C there’s D there’s Z. There’s all of this over there beyond even what you vision for yourself right now.

And even what I envisioned for myself right now is the ability to have the perspective of someone else’s eyes, someone who already believes in you before you believe in yourself. And I’ve been lucky to have had a bunch of just really great mentors and people pour into me so much. You just naturally, it’s not like I wake up and I want to be a mentor today.

You know, I’ve done that, for me it’s the opportunity every day with, especially working with typically younger workers and people who are still so fresh and, and their perspective and eyes, just to say, Hey, don’t even just look past it. just look past today. Don’t even look to tomorrow, but let’s look to next week and, let’s think huge, but I’m also very a practical, Like you can get too big for your britches sometimes, but I’m like, like you were saying, what does that mean in terms of actionable steps that we can work toward today, this week, next week, while you are working towards your KPIs and hitting your goals, what does this mean in the bigger scheme of things, but also what does this mean for you today?

Andy Paul: Yeah. And I think this for me too often is missing in, especially in today’s sales environment, where coaching tends to be very transactional and we miss. I call it mentoring, which is different, which is the development of the individual, not as a salesperson, but the development of the individual, which is going to benefit the sales person. And that has to be paid attention to as a, as keenly as you do, how we develop this person as a sales person.

Tara Horstmeyer: Absolutely. Absolutely because you are, you’re leaving so much opportunity on the table. when you do, when you just look at them, one dimensional essentially, instead of taking into, into account their entire being and their entire person. And yes, there’s times where you do want to just say, okay, let’s focus in on skills. Let’s focus in on how we can write this better, how we can communicate or message or all of that. It’s such a fan of all of those, but I think truly to unlock and develop their entire potential, you have got to also dig into other areas of their life that they’ll let you in. Which I mean is so it’s just such a trust thing that you hope to build over time.

You can’t walk in first day for most people and say, tell me your life story. And I want to make all these great things. I would, but for most people you have to earn that and know that even if you do say that they’re going to give you. You know that, a small portion of who they are. And then you’ve just got to earn it over time and making those deposits as their leader, showing them, Hey, you can trust me with more than just your KPIs. You can trust me with more than just your quota, but I’ve got to show that to them every day. Yeah.

Andy Paul: It’s no different than what you have to show to your buyers because the trust has to exist there for them to share information with you, the level of information that you need and to be open and vulnerable and so on. So that’s a great lesson for sellers to experience. Cause it just, it mimics what you have to do in a customer interaction as well.

Now, one of the reasons I want to chat with you is because your whole company actually needed to led by your CEO Casey Graham have really embraced LinkedIn, I believe in a very effective fashion. And I think it’d be a role model, if you will, for people out here in sales that are looking to builds their own brand, build the company’s brand, engage potential customers and so on. So you’ve committed yourself to this process and just wanting to go through it and it’s funny, you wrote in a post, you said, LinkedIn is ridiculous. So tell people what you meant by that.

Tara Horstmeyer: what I meant was it’s so funny because I think anytime you go into it with social media, you automatically have preconceived notions. especially when you’ve been around a minute, like I have, and I’ve seen the birth of Facebook and Instagram and, all of these different platforms and LinkedIn was always something, especially just with my very unusual career journey that I just never embraced.

I literally thought like a lot of people who I talked to you, unfortunately, and I feel almost like an evangelist now, telling everybody about like how great LinkedIn really is. I just thought Hey, it’s something for those people, like people who really had their stuff together were super professional, had years and years of all of this hardcore experience. And we’re writing like white papers. Oh my gosh, I don’t belong. Like that’s just not me. but once Casey really honestly started, and he’ll tell you to anybody that just modeling the way of Oh, this is not what I thought it was, or maybe it was, but now it’s different. And now it’s morphed into that. And so it took me a minute. I initially tried to engage a little bit at the beginning of the year, but then as we know, 2020, the world ended so we step back to focus on all the things. And I’m like, Oh my gosh. but really it was. Toward the B I actually right at the beginning of the summer.

And I really saw Casey develop, honestly for me, I’m such a relational person that, I just saw all the relational, just people who was connecting with the connections, the conversations, how much he was learning from other people. And, I was like, I’m going to give this a shot. Not even like that there was an end goal, but I just want to connect and I want to learn and by that time I was doing what a lot of people do, which I think is just like scrolling through posts, looking, learning, connecting, but not really giving back, not posting, just and it’s, there’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s how I was engaging just to see, just to get my swimming feet under me.

And once I just saw Oh gosh, there are normal people, regular people who are just sharing what they’re learning, what they’re seeing, leadership lessons all the way down to strategic, how to write emails. it was such a, just all across the board of incredible people with really, for me, individual unique perspectives and voices.

That I was like, shoot, I’m just going to put stuff out. So I did. And it was ridiculous about it was, of course the positive feedback and people saying things, but it was just more for me. I think it was ridiculous in the amount of just connections that I was able to make with just genuine. Awesome. Normal people, who are just trying to figure out this career world, this working world, this life, just the rest of us are and doing so in a way that’s really bringing value to other people. And, so that’s what made it honestly ridiculous for me. Okay.

Andy Paul: Well, and so here’s, the question is as someone’s going to hear that and they’ll say. Someone in the same role as you’re in, as a frontline manager and can say, I don’t know it seems like it’s a distraction to have my people do this. What do they get out of it? What if I do that? What do I get out of it? They’re probably asking more often than not, I think at this point. So what are you getting out of it?

Tara Horstmeyer: So I think for me personally, as more of us do it is brand recognition and exposure, but the whole, I guess the key for me is that I didn’t go into it saying necessarily, I don’t know if that’s the right question that I was asking, what am I going to get out of it, it was more, and I guess it could be but-

Andy Paul: Yeah, the question is, if not, what do you get out of it? The question that as well. Okay. Based on what you’re doing so far is why keep on doing it?

Tara Horstmeyer: I think for me, it’s pretty clear because now I’m so involved in the community there and the people there that I miss it, I went on vacation for a week and I think I posted once or twice, but I was still looking. And it’s just one of those things that you feel like there’s something going on there that not that I need to, there’s no need to like post or interact.

I take days off every week. I’m not a every day poster kind of thing, but I just really love, I’ve just gotten so used to learning essentially every day. So for me, it’s really been a great tool of, “Hey, here’s what I’m learning. What do you think?” So I really am one of those people that I try to ask a question in my post just to get other feedback, other things.

Thoughts, and other perspectives to think outside of my echo chamber in my head, essentially, that things I’m always right. And I’m like, Nope, that’s not true. I, yeah, so I get a lot out of it from again, from the engagement as in, the conversations that happen, whether I post something or someone else posts something. And I comment, that to me is where the gold is really in the conversations.

Andy Paul: Learning.

Tara Horstmeyer: Yeah, absolutely.

Andy Paul: So let’s yeah, let’s, that’s a whole nother aspect. I think that people don’t talk enough about. And we had, Justin Welsh on the show a couple weeks ago, talked about, building a personal brand on LinkedIn, which I think is hugely important these days. For sure. But in addition, as you’re talking about is you’re learning.

Tara Horstmeyer: Oh my-

Andy Paul: And this is so important. As here is a venue in LinkedIn that certainly for salespeople where there’s, arguably you could say too much sales content perhaps, but, but what you’re finding value in. And what you’re saying, which I think is really interesting is not necessarily you know, the white papers written by the sales expert, but just the connection I make of someone else that has their own perspective on what they’re doing and what I can learn from that perspective and apply to my job.

Tara Horstmeyer: Absolutely my joke. I call it the mastermind in my pocket. I’ve used that before, because I literally can scroll through there and get actionable things. It’s like it’s providing feedback loops in real time, which is so great. Especially I think in sales when you are, so go-go, let’s just tap in a startup environment, which I’m a huge believer that like everybody should have that startup mindset of just let’s.

That’s things, let’s try things. And then if it doesn’t work, like that’s okay, we’ll throw it out. But something works, or it’s worked for them. Let’s try it for us. So for example, last, I think it was last fall when I just first started engaging someone, posted a video strategy and I was like, I’m going to go try that and literally tried it, booked a meeting, it was amazing.

And I. messaged immediately and was like, thank you for posting that tip. Like you literally just booked me a meeting. and I would not have thought of that. and it was just someone, an SDR doing their thing. And it was one of those again where I’m like, it’s not just, there are great, higher level thoughts and gosh, that really made me think about things, but then there’s so much practical. Hey, here’s, here’s three tips to try or what about doing this? And of course, Josh Braun is amazing with, just all of his email tips. And I, so I just, I’m a constant learner, but I’m also a constant trier. So I love to try it.

Andy Paul: Okay. and so a question that was about this, because I think this is really to the point that the, what to make for people here is that you wouldn’t, yeah, you can just go on LinkedIn and be a voyeur and. Yeah, I think for what you’re saying is that you’ve actually been able to get more that you’d get from just reading by actually engaging, actually putting stuff out there A and then engaging in addition to it.

Tara Horstmeyer: Yes. Hands down and, it’s just so interesting that, it takes so much courage to just make that first post or to make that first post and be like the two people see it. I don’t know. And then, and again, like it’s. So much courage, but my encouragement I’m like, courage is encouragement.

It’s really that, Hey, once you do, and really once you find your people and you put yourself out there first, I’m always like show up in the comments. if you’re afraid to make that first post, or you don’t know what to say, go ahead and just get your feet wet by commenting on other things that you see.

And eventually you’ll get the hang of it. You’ll get used to. To sharing your voice, even if it’s not necessarily putting out that first post, but even before you do. And I think I did that for a little bit too. It’s let me just engage in, just put myself out there a little bit and then, just start making those posts and start engaging, but really doing it as a he, how can this, it just it has helped me and I’ve learned so much.

I really try to put my posts or what I write through the eyes of. Could this help someone else? could this, could they learn from this or could this give them a pause to think about something? it doesn’t have to be anything like crazy, deeper, profound, but, just,

Andy Paul: Precisely as is. And this is, I think the thing I really urge people, if they’re listening to this to take to heart, is that okay? And I’ve said this before on the show, is that your experience is as valid as anybody else’s and sales. If you’ve done something and it worked for you, even if it only worked once or twice.

So what share it? If somebody else may find value in it, you don’t have to have spent 20 years doing it to say, yeah, this is valid is what we need is we need more people writing to you. As you said, on a personal, genuine basis, what works for them and just put it out there and then yeah.

let people get access to it. And this may be where we find the next circle of revolutionary thing we do in sales. Instead of thinking the only people that should have a voice, all those people that have written the books or whatever, every, this is a place everybody can help move sales forward. And this is the way to do it.

One post at a time.

Tara Horstmeyer: Absolutely. I can’t think of a better way to say that because it’s so true. And it really has been my story, is when I think about, I just didn’t think I was, enough and a lot of ways to like, what does it matter what I say? And I’m not, this cookie cutter person, or this is not my experience, but I’m such a blur.

And that’s what I tell, even, our newest team members, it’s like, Hey, you are. Your experiences, your experience and your perspective. And if anything, we need that we need the fresh eyes we need. Like you were saying, the person who could have the next innovation, not because they looked at someone else and said, Hey, I’m going to copy exactly that.

you’re trying stuff and you’re going by gut and you’re just testing things and then putting it out there just to say, Hey, again, this is my experience and this is what I’m going through, but yeah. This is important and should be shared. And I think the confidence that it takes to do that is going to bleed over in every area of your life.

Andy Paul: Exactly. Exactly. if you write about your sales experience, you’re going to understand. You’ll come to understand your experience in a way you didn’t before you actually have thought it through, if you get feedback on it. Yeah. I remember I wrote my first book. someone said, what’s it about? And I said, that’s so funny. I thought it was about one thing, but then I started reading what people are writing about it. And I thought, Oh, maybe it’s about something else altogether. it was that interaction that really helped me understand what I had written.

Tara Horstmeyer: Yeah, that’s so important. And it’s, but you also took the time to listen, which I think is so important. It’s I try to say, and again, this is people are busy and there is absolutely nothing wrong, with anybody who, what I call, like I try not to post and ghost.

that’s my thing is. He comments. I want to comment. I want to listen. I want to take their feedback. I want to engage. I want to ask them maybe another question. If they put something that I thought was interesting. It’s, I love the, tell me more, and not because of anything other than wow, this is genuine perspective.

And maybe not at all, what, like you were saying, what I even thought I was posting about, cause it’s going to hit everybody different, which is absolutely fascinating to me because it’s a lesson in listening and it’s a lesson in people.

Andy Paul: Yeah. No, it is. and unless I do your experience, you, the listener are it’s, hearing this as your experiences are as valid as anybody else’s so share it. And then you learn more about it in the process of doing that. And I think that becomes such a critical thing in your own development, is you have a chance now to which certainly didn’t exist when I was coming up in the world, other than, writing a book is, Yeah. Trying stuff out.

Tara Horstmeyer: Just try it. You never know what’s going to happen. If you don’t try it. We always know those quotes of you’re going to fail a hundred percent of the time of the things that you don’t try, but if you try then imagine the potential, the resort score, just who you’re becoming by trying, like even just take your eye off of as a metric or anything that it’s like, if I don’t get this result, failed in my, just mine being as I’m like, I failed if I didn’t even try if I did not even put myself out there.

And, it takes a lot of courage. I’m actually a little more risk averse, I think, than I sound that it does take. But once you do it’s almost, it’s just like a muscle, like anything else once you start really. Of out and showing up and testing things in one area and finding success, not necessarily in what you thought was successful, but just in yourself of confidence of dang, that was hard, but I did it.

So now when I pick up the phone or when I, do this pitcher, when I try this thing or I go to ask for something, you just innately are more confident and you really are becoming. More of your best self. So it is wild that doing something simple, it seems simple by getting outside your comfort zone and posting, or, speaking up in a meeting or just doing any of these little things that do require courage, for some more than others, for some, maybe a little bit less, but anything that stretches you in that way, just it’s again, it’s just a muscle that grows and really can impact your life beyond your career and beyond your work.

Andy Paul: Exactly very well said. And I think also I would suspect, I’ll ask you the question is. I think as a woman in sales, that doing what you’re doing in this approach is yeah, there’s surf maybe hopefully less of a or more freedom to post than you might feel otherwise in other environments to speak up and to develop your voice.

Tara Horstmeyer: I’ve always been someone who is not afraid to speak up and, especially I’ve always been, it’s interesting. I look back at just my career journey and it started when, right out of, well in college and right out, I was working on the sports desk and was journalist and so very much, I was the only female, I have roles or in a lot of positions that I’ve been in, not all of them, but, I have been one of the only females and now I’m in a house where I’m the only female.

Andy Paul: Yes, you are.

Tara Horstmeyer: So I do think that there’s value in that. And, it definitely offers a unique perspective because there are not as many women who are in sales or sales, leadership, and, or even, marketing and marketing leadership.

And we’re seeing a lot more of that. So part of what I think keeps me going and drives me is seeing more and more of that or seeing more people, step up to the plate and say, I’ve got something to say, and I’m not going to be shy because I have all of these examples around me. And ahead of me in these cheerleaders beside me who are male and female, wasn’t the case necessarily 20 years ago when I was working in sports, and it was very much, I have to prove myself before I could, I essentially post myself, I couldn’t put myself out there as easily as some other people potentially could who were in the same roles or positions.

But, I think again, taking those first steps of saying I’m going to be different and that’s okay. and then that allowed me the courage to just put myself out there more and more as I’ve gone.

Andy Paul: Love it. Tara, unfortunately we run out of time, but, it’s been a pleasure. And so people want to connect with you obviously on LinkedIn, but if they wanna connect with you otherwise, how can they do that?

Tara Horstmeyer: Yeah. obviously you can check us out gravysolutions.io and, yeah. Find me there. So shoot me an email anytime.

Andy Paul: All right, Tara. Thank you very much.

Tara Horstmeyer: Thanks, Andy. I appreciate it.