Chad Burmeister is the founder of ScaleX.ai and Salesclass.ai, as well as host of the AI for Sales podcast. Today we’re going to talk about how the pandemic presents an opportunity to transform some of the obsolete practices and processes that limit future sales growth.
Andy Paul: Chad Burmeister. Welcome back to the show.
Chad Burmeister: Great to be here. How are you?
Andy Paul: I’m doing well. I’m doing well. How about you? So where are you? Where are you hiding these days?
Chad Burmeister: I am actually in Littleton, Highlands Ranch, Colorado at the beautiful home office.
Andy Paul: The home office.
Chad Burmeister: It is beautiful outside. I get to spend time at my fire pit with my family and friends. And that’s where I’m at.
Andy Paul: Now, are you sitting around the fire pit right now?
Chad Burmeister: Not at the moment, but it’s about 40 feet from me at this moment.
Andy Paul: Maybe we should’ve done this later in the day, where you could add the fire pit and we could all be having a beer
Chad Burmeister: That’s right. Next time.
Andy Paul: Next time. Cause Littleton doesn’t that? No, I guess that’s Golden that’s home of Coors.
Chad Burmeister: No. We’re 45 minutes from Coors.
Andy Paul: Alright. Do you get out at all? Exercising, running, you’re not skiing, obviously.
Chad Burmeister: No skiing. I did get a new watch. The platinum Garmin Phoenix. I can’t remember the model, the 3.0 or whatever it is, but it’s an AI powered watch. That is amazing. I was at the fire pit last night and I was talking to two people, the SVP, the former VP of sales for Miller Heiman, Rich Blakeman, and my CMO.
And we’re all sitting around the fire pit. And at one point I got excited about some something we were talking about and my watch started buzzing at me. And it said your heart rate is high. So it was pretty interesting and it tells me, it continues to push me to do more steps and get my heart rate up. And man, Oh man, AI is, it’s here and it’s upon us. And, we need to figure out who’s wearing the pants in the AI family.
Andy Paul: I will learn more about the watch. So how do you use it on a day to day basis? Just to remind you, or do you like have programs that you set on it? Hey, I’m going out for a walk
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, I got it just two or three weeks ago. One of my customers Sushee, from MaxSold, he’s the CEO and he flies small airplanes as a pilot. He’s also the CEO and he runs 100 kilometers per month. And so he’s from Canada. So that’s why the KM. So he told me about this and he said, Oh yeah, you want to get in shape, post COVID-19. I call it the COVID-19. Cause average American gained 15 to 19 pounds.
Andy Paul: I put on seven.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, there you go. But you’re only one third of the way there. You got a little more work to do.
Andy Paul: No, I’m on the other side of the curve. Now, the curve is flattening for me. And my waist. And going back down. Yes.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, that’s good. So it, what it does is it tells you your heart rate through the day. It tells you your sleeping patterns. It tells you more about yourself and your patterns then, so honestly, I don’t know the answer to your question yet. I only put it on two and a half weeks, recharged it two or three times. I’m getting a baseline built in and doing my normal routine. And then when I start going above the baseline, I’m excited for tracking all that stuff and looking at the patterns over time, I suspect it will have a very positive impact on my cholesterol levels and other things in my life.
Andy Paul: You’re a young man. You shouldn’t be worrying about your cholesterol levels yet.
Chad Burmeister: Oh, I’ve had cholesterol since I was younger. I did my life insurance test and they said, wow, your cholesterol levels are spiked. So yeah, it’s always on the back of my mind.
Andy Paul: Yeah, me too. Family of heart disease with a history of heart disease, so yeah. Yeah. You always think about those things.
Chad Burmeister: AI for heart disease, man. It’s everywhere. We can, you can solve a lot of problems. That’s what, that’s why. that’s why I’m so excited about ScaleX.ai, because we’re bringing AI to sales.
Andy Paul: Alright. So tell us, this is your company Scalex.ai, and you can give us a little commercial. That’s fine. What do you guys do?
Chad Burmeister: Put simply pipeline as a service done for you pipeline. So I had a meeting with PK Cater the other day. He was the former CEO of Tout app that was sold to Marketo and the number one thing they measured that would lead to positive outcomes, such as more pipeline, more meetings, more bookings, more revenue was the number of emails sent. Number of activities at the top. And so they saw that if they shipped code and you bought their platform, if as long as they could get you to drive more activities on the platform, then they would renew. Unfortunately, people are people. So whether it’s a manager, a VP, a rep, a turnover, there can be a lot of reason codes for not actually using the technology and leveraging it to its fullest capability. The value to me of artificial intelligence is that it’s going to do the work regardless. And when it comes to emails and social connectivity and pulling data and putting it in the list, there’s so much that can be done and executed by AI. And then the human is required at various parts of that interaction. But no longer does the human need to run a hundred out of a hundred of the activity steps, maybe only 30 or 40.
Andy Paul: Yeah. and this gets to a point that I talk about all the time is that, and this, I got this term from Geoffrey Colvin’s book, Humans are Underrated. He said the people are going to succeed going forward are those who are able to become more intensely human. And so meaning that when you need to be human to interact and connect with somebody and work on this buying process, you need to be at your best, but yeah, why not let the more repetitive things be handled by artificial intelligence?
Chad Burmeister: Yes. I just hung up the phone this morning with Patty who Alice Heiman introduced me to and she thought she was going to have, she doesn’t like to do cold calls. So she thought that now that email as a channel has become so overrated and spammy that she thought she was going to have to figure out a different industry or move and pivot in a big way.
And then I showed her the social platform that allows her to put her high level of EQ. And I say her because men, generally men don’t have the, quite the high level of EQ and emotional intelligence. And so there’s an interesting time in the history of the world where. Programming the AI to be more human in the way that you build your messages and communicate with your prospects, it favors someone like Patty. She’s like Chad I’m drooling. I actually have to get out a pad of paper and pad my lip because this is amazing. What you’re showing me. I was showing her the Scale X social platform that enables her to build sequences and connection messages that are very human. And because if you try to have a team of, let’s say 10 or 20 BDRs, try to be very human, guess what?
We’re going to mess it up, right? You’re going to copy and paste. And if you give it to a marketer, they’re going to generally do things that are features and functions related. If you give it to a high EQ person that can build out a highly effective communication strategy through social. You’ll see high yield, right?
We have a customer called Newton Talent that launched about a month and a half ago and said, you know what? I realized that you’ve probably had some layoffs. You’re probably going through things just like all of us, but are you looking forward to July and August now? And are you prepared for when you need to make additional hires?
And then she offered a resource or two and said, Hey, you thought you might be interested in this tool and how can we help? Her messages are full of high EQ. And she has 122 replies in under 30 days. And a large percentage of those are I’m interested, let’s have a conversation, put it on the calendar.
Andy Paul: So give people an example of this high EQ messaging.
Chad Burmeister: Let me, I think I will need to actually look at it. Yeah. I believe I am actually in there right now, so here’s a good one. Thanks for connecting Jason. I appreciate it. I suspect like most leaders I have spoken with recently, you may not be hiring right now. But is your team ready? If our economy bounces back in July? Your hiring needs may grow faster than you are able to keep up with, especially if you don’t have a pipeline of candidates and are actively keeping them warm. One of the benefits of working with a team like ours is that we can ramp up and scale down quickly eliminating the risk and expense of having to rescale an internal team. We’d love to help. Would you have a few minutes this week, or next to talk? Let me introduce you to our power sourcing solution. We support HR organizations like yours, and I’m confident you would find a quick call, interesting and productive.
Right? It’s empathetic to the person on the other side of the social outreach. And it keeps the reader reading because yep. You had caught me there. You got me there. You got me there. If it’s irrelevant then. Okay. No, we actually doubled in sales in the last 90 days. Not relevant, I’ll delete it, but by and large, most people that are getting this message are saying, yeah, this is exactly what I’m experiencing.
Andy Paul: So who wrote this?
Chad Burmeister: So this was the owner of the company, Patty.
Andy Paul: So how do you help people, your clients come up with these high EQ messages?
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, fortunately, or unfortunately, half the companies we work with have people with high EQ and we can partner with them and there’s templates that are built into the backend. So you log in there’s 14 different templates and you can pick and choose which one feels like you, but know that you’re living within the guardrails of a high EQ opening message.
You’re not just going to say, Hey, Andy, I thought we should connect and go grab a cup of coffee sometime. And then you connect with me and I say, Hey, Andy, would you like to have a demo of my product? That’s not high EQ, right? that’s me trying to sell you something.
Andy Paul: Yeah. So let’s dissect that message again. So let’s go back through that. Cause I think it’s worthwhile pointing out to people. If they’re not familiar, those high EQ points in that message.
Chad Burmeister: it’s interesting. Have you ever attended Corporate Vision’s Power Messaging training by any chance?
Andy Paul: No, but I’m familiar with it. Yeah.
Chad Burmeister: So it’s all, midbrain and how people think and that’s a very emotionally intelligent kind of a training. I remember going through it at Riverbed, 10 or 12 years ago, and it’s still sticks with me. The critique I would have here would be that there’s too many words “I” in the first sentence.
Thanks for connecting Jim.
So that’s good. Cause it doesn’t say I in the first sentence, you always want to use the person’s name where possible in the first sentence. So that’s important now for sentence.
I appreciate it. I suspect. Most leaders that I have spoken to…
That’s actually, you want it to be three quarters you phrased and one quarter I phrased. So even though I really like this messaging and it’s getting high results. So at the end of the day, if it’s A/B tested and it works, then first see rule a, it’s got 120 replies. So at the end of the day, however, what would happen if you changed it and said:
Thanks for connecting Andy.
And then you took out, I appreciate it and take out I suspect like most leaders, what if it just said like most leaders I’ve spoken to right now you’ve just taken out three “I’s” and made it one “I” and now it’s a 50-50.
Andy Paul: Yeah and for me, it’s also one things that stands out there is that I personally feel it would be stronger saying that although like corporate leaders that I’ve spoken to is if he’s more phrases, that we’ve spoken to collectively, that, that gives more social proof to it.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah. Yeah. That’s very fair. Now see, the other thing they say is stop. we-weeing all over your customer. So sometimes if you think when you’re a kid and they say, now, Andy. We don’t do it that way. And so that has a subconscious ring to it, that could, so you have to be careful with the word we, they said as well. You think you’re safest with you and the, you phrasing.
Andy Paul: But I was thinking in a different context, which is, I think oftentimes, especially at this time, and maybe this is a little more specific to the period of time that we’re in is that the messaging says, look, we’ve talked a lot of companies like you, and this is what we’ve learned, as opposed to saying, we’re talking to you as part of this effort to learn. You’re included in that as opposed to, Oh, we already talked to the more important companies. Now we’re talking to you as you make the person feel more part of this effort, the gender taking to learn what’s going on in the marketplace. And they’re important because you’re asking their opinion. And I think that’s more powerful and inclusive, whereas, opposed to saying, we’ve talked a bunch of companies, this is what they’re saying, don’t you feel the same way? It’s no, you’re assuming that. And also you’re telling me I wasn’t important enough to talk to him about this in the first place. So be inclusive and empathetic in that regard.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, and these things matter. And so there’s another company that is a customer called Motiva.AI, and rather than guessing, what they do is sit on top of all of the tens of thousands, or in some companies millions, of emails that go out through Eloqua and they integrate right. There’s about 2000 companies that use Eloqua in the United States.
And they can sit on top of the platform and be able to tell you, Hey, if you use a shorter subject line, if you send on Monday at 3:00 PM, instead of Tuesday at 9:00 AM, you’ll get a better open rate or a better click rate. And it’s down to the individual person level. And so there’s a whole series of optimizations that have never before been possible all because of AI.
I think a lot of this is. whether you read it or I read it, we may have different perspectives on the world. And I think in this time and day and age where we’re living in, we all have different lenses. And at the end of the day, when it’s big data, the big data can look across all those different lenses and help to customize it, how you would want to be spoken to in an email or in a LinkedIn message. And I think that’s, it’s both exciting and frightening at the same time.
Andy Paul: And I think the real future is that we get even more targeted. Because one of the things that we’re seeing with a lot of reports about data, big data, I’ve looked at all these examples of things and so on is that, it still doesn’t have a lot of context. And so it’s saying it’s this is what it is across the entire range, but it doesn’t tell you, this message is more effective for companies, 50 million and under this is good for 50 to 250, this is good for 200 to 500, and this is 500 and above because there are differences, or the types of products they sell, the industries the companies are in. And I think as we start getting more granular like that, then the power just increases exponentially.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, TK calls it, “the riches are in the niches.” The more you can niche down the better off you are.
Andy Paul: And that’s the problem with, I think with the big data that’s being served up so far in sales is it’s too generic. And what happens is that sellers and, there are vendors out there that publish their posts on LinkedIn about, yeah. If you do this, like this point, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It’s Yeah, no, you’re generalizing across such a huge spectrum of audiences and seller types and customer types is we need to get really much more niche, as you said, it is then the power of the data is just huge.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah. So check this out. As I, as we continue the conversation, I read the second message after they’ve now connected. They’ve gotten the first one. This one’s equally brilliant. So check this out.
Hello again, Andy.
Doesn’t that feel good? Hello again? there’s a song of hello again. I think I remember Neil diamond, I can hear that from my childhood. So…
I hope this finds you. we have yet to connect, but I wanted to offer a free resource before I give up on us.
It’s almost like we’re recording. I don’t want to give up on us yet. I, and that’s unique. it’s different, than other people, Gary V tends to say, Hey, TikTok’s the new thing, great. I’m going to go own TikTok and be different there. And then a new technology will come out and then, and he’ll go there. So I think this language of before I give up on us, who does that, I’ve never received that email before or that social message.
Andy Paul: I like that. Yeah. Before you give up on us.
Chad Burmeister: I’m going to, I’m going to definitely put that one in my repertoire. And then it says…
I recently delivered a webinar with the RPO association in it we discussed why HR leaders need to look at their EVP before the economy opens up. To make a long story short our workplace environments-
That’s a good question. I’m actually thinking if
Andy Paul: Some metric.
Chad Burmeister: I might put in, I might put something in, an RPO association, right? What is RPO for the buyer as well?
Andy Paul: Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Burmeister: Your EVP?
Andy Paul: I think that’s a good point though, lets not pass over it is, spell that crap out and then put the acronym in parentheis afterwards.
Chad Burmeister: Correct. Good point.
Your EVP may need to be presented differently.
I believe its value proposition, economic value proposition.
And depending on how your communications connected during the crisis you may have clean up to do. We provided a free employer brand resiliency assessment to help participants understand their organization strengths and where messaging can improve perceptions of them as employers post-crisis, I’d like to offer it to you and your organization as well. Click here to see a video on the, on how the sales dashboard works.
Josh Braun did an amazing talk and he talked about Zilba and he’s put it on LinkedIn. If you Google it, you can find his Zilba talk. You’ll even hear his video. And he talks about making seven or eight deposits. Imagine you go to the ATM and let’s say there’s $0 in your bank account today. What most salespeople do is they go to their ATM and they bang on it and they go, where’s my hundred dollars. And there is no a hundred dollars. You have to make deposits first. So what I read in the second one is check out this resiliency thing. If you have a problem with leadership and HR leaders in this EVP thing, which I’m assuming these types of customers will understand what all that means, but don’t make assumptions you probably want to add, like we said, the acronym, what it means, but here’s this resiliency assessment. Man guess what if I click on the free resiliency assessment, that’s raising my hand as a potential buyer and it’s valuable to me. So think about it. And Josh Braun terms, you just made a deposit for a hundred bucks now.
Good. Another deposit and another, his point was by the time you’re at like seven and eight deposits, you don’t even have to ask for the withdrawal that customer’s going to come back to you and say, man, Andy, these are amazing resources that you shared. I’d like to talk to you about your products or services someday. Make more deposits.
Andy Paul: It’s another way of saying, I’ve said it differently for a long time as is you’re training the buyer to want to open and read what you’re sending, because there’s value in it for them.
Chad Burmeister: Yes.
Andy Paul: And that I don’t make it sound Pavlovian, but it’s ringing a bell and the dog wants to eat the food when you ring the bell. You’re training them surely the way to think of, I think it’s a better way to think about it is it’s just, yeah. they’re going to desire to read what you send at that point, because there’s something in it for them.
Chad Burmeister: Yes. Yes. W2FM. What’s in it for me.
Andy Paul: Yeah. Yeah. absolutely. And so it’s a worthwhile use of their time and I think that’s really what these emails, that’s somebody who’s just does deposits. Yeah. It’s worth my time. This other mail not worth my time at all. And if you’re in the not worth my time at all.
Chad Burmeister: What are your thoughts on VidYard? BombBomb? Lets talk about that.
Andy Paul: I like it, and I’m not disciplined enough of them in using it. And you got to get in the habit, I think. and for me, I just, I think it’s very effective. When I’ve used the tool consistently, the open rate is incredible. The response rate is incredible. Multiples of what normally get with normal email. And it’s funny when you think about, yeah, this seems fairly commonplace. It’s not commonplace yet. There are so few people comparatively using it, that I always listen to the message or watch and listen to the message.
Chad Burmeister: Check it out. So Alice Heiman’s on my board of advisors. She sent me a video message this morning. In text through an app. And I wasn’t familiar with the app. I can’t even let me see if I can see the name of it, it pops up on my text.
Andy Paul: Oh, through text!
Chad Burmeister: That’s cool. Yeah, through text. Vid.us is what it’s called. And so what I saw when I saw it, I’ve seen her using this format in her LinkedIn posts. And so truth, truthfully, when I saw it, I was like, Oh, maybe that’s an interesting talk that she gave one to many, but I was at least curious enough in texts to click it. And what it was is that, we tried to call her last night because she knows Rich Blakeman. And so we’re going to do a three way call with her and it turns out she was busy. She had to wake up at 5:00 AM this morning and do a 6:00 AM presentation.
So she was like, I don’t want to be rude. It’s 4:30 in the morning and I’m sending you this video message. Here’s the situation and why I can’t call you. And won’t be able to talk to you until later in the day. So it was interesting.
I almost feel like it’s, sometimes it can be like the mountains I live in Colorado. I drive by the mountains. They’re beautiful and amazing. And then I forget that they’re there. And so just like this message, it didn’t hit me between the eyes because I’ve seen a lot of video messaging lately. And so at what I guess, long winded answer, at what point does the video message get diluted just like any other channel. But I think for the time being the channel is very effective.
Andy Paul: I don’t think we’re at the point of overusing it and if people want to listen to my recent interview with Steven Pacinelli from BombBomb, they have this, acronym TUNED for their five steps for making effective video messages. And I don’t have my cheat sheet in front of it cause I keep it on my desk for when I do them.
But, yeah, listen to that episode. It will give you some great advice. I’m sure it’s on their website probably too. Yeah five easy steps to make sure you’re doing a very effective video message. And I think once you get in the habit and so I go through streaks where I use it and then forget about it to your point about the mountains.
But it is, I think it’s effective and my results went good and it’s not because. Yeah. People know what I’m even gonna say. Cause they’re opening it in anticipation of hearing it. They don’t know what I’m going to say. And then you get I think, it’s still unique enough, I think you get a much better response rate.
Chad Burmeister: Yep. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. let’s think another interesting AI use case for the show and listeners here. We talked about the social outreach and how high EQ is important. And that’s a direct attack. If you will, of going after a customer. You’re going direct to them with a high EQ message.
Now imagine you’ve got a list of 500 target accounts and you’re going true ABM. What I’ve found is if you’ve been email blasting, those 500 accounts for the last 10 years, let’s say IBM, 25 years, of the 500 people that are on the list that are your best targets, guess what? At least 50 to 70% have opted out of your company’s communications. What most marketers do in that decision process to say, if they’ve opted out of email, then we’re also opting them out of phone calls. Now legally that’s untrue. I can call you legally in a B2B world. So I think a lot of people mess that up, but my point of this is that, what if you could plug in an AI application into your LinkedIn that analyzes your, all your first connections and your second connections. So for every 1000 connections you have that are first, you have between one and 1.4 million seconds. So I have 18000 1st, which means I have 18 million plus/minus seconds. If you hired a BDR to go out and analyze 18 million connections in my case, or 1 million in the case of a person who has a thousand connections, that would take years, they may never get done. And it would be impossible. So what AI can do now is say, here’s my list of 500 accounts and the people within those accounts. And I push a button with a Chrome extension. It goes out through LinkedIn, it chugs through it, and within seven to 12 minutes tells me in no uncertain terms, Andy’s the best person to get me in front of the CEO at ringDNA. And Pat Lynch ex-CSO
Andy Paul: my buddy!
Chad Burmeister: He’s the best person to get me in front of Rich Blakeman. Rich, let’s say, Ryan Jesus, the SVP of sales from Zoom video now, formerly RingCentral, formerly WebEx, he’s the best person that can get me in front of ABC XYZ. He knows a lot of people. So imagine the AI runs this and says, these are your top 1000 pathways into those 500 people.
And now the AI executes an email to the influencers. Hey Ryan Jeseus. I see you’re connected to Eric Yuan, the CEO of zoom video, during these crazy COVID times, we’re seeing this happen and by adding AI for sales to your process, we’re seeing companies increase pipeline by 5X. Would you mind making an introduction to Eric, please?
Just by going through the indirect approach, you are 181 times more likely, according to recent Salesforce report, to not just get a meeting, but actually sell that transaction.
Andy Paul: What is this app that you’re referring to?
Chad Burmeister: It’s called ScaleX Social Flow. I’m glad you asked. You walked right into that one.
Yeah. It’s magical. In interviewing over 25 different CEOs and chief data scientists from companies like InsideView and DiscoverOrg and ZoomInfo. If you saw yesterday, they just went up $13 billion market cap as of this morning. Amazing. Congratulations, Henry Schuck.
Andy Paul: Congratulations, Henry. Yeah.
Chad Burmeister: So because we interviewed so many people and have created a network over the last 20 years in selling. We’ve partnered with companies where we find these kinds of best of breed solutions. And what’s interesting, Andy you’ll appreciate this, the value of scale X. If I were to go buy from ZoomInfo for data and I buy from ConnectAndSell for dials. I buy from another company and another company. So now let’s say I’ve got four different tools and technologies under the house. We’ll then COVID hits and you go, Oh shoot. I don’t actually need those 50,000 connected cell dials that I bought.
What can you do? Call ConnectAndSell, they’re going to go. You paid for them. I’m pretty sorry, but if you buy another 50,000, we’ll carry them over to next year. That’s a pretty normal, standard software response. The beauty of ScaleX that I didn’t know this going in, I didn’t know this would be one of the value propositions, is that I’ve had multiple customers, four or five have said, Hey, we bought 50,000 Al’s and dials from you that are agent assisted. We let two of the two BDRs go and we’re only focused on install base right now. So what can you do? Can you just send us a check for the $50,000 back. I said, I can do better than that. You guys wanted pipeline. That’s why you came to us. I get it. You don’t have the two people that can make the dials. Check out this cool thing called social flow.
Check out this other platform that we talked about earlier. Now you can re-reappoint the spend to other things and still drive pipeline, even though they don’t have the original use case in place that was there. So we’re finding that kind of software aggregation. There’s hardware companies who’ve done this for a long time. CDW others. Not a lot of software companies that have put together a sales tech stack. I’ve had companies who say, Oh, you’re just a reseller in the past. And I used to take offense to that and say, Oh, that sucks. And now I say, you’re just a sales trainer and I’m an aggregator of the best technologies in the world. And so I can provide a better service for my customers and they can reallocate their spend as required. And you are just a sales trainer. And you are shut out for the last 12 weeks with all your meetings. So it’s interesting perspective. I’m trying not to be mean, but you can probably feel that come through for a second.
Andy Paul: Yeah. Yeah. first of all, there are way too many sales trainers in the world.
Chad Burmeister: yeah. for sure.
Andy Paul: we could stand with a low widdling out if, if
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, to that effect, we’re launching a new application that I’d love to have you be a part of. Gerhard Gschwandtner, Selling Power guru; Dionne Mischler is Inside Sales by Design. And so this is going to be a women, a woman owned women, run business, by Dionne she’s the CEO and it’s called SalesClass.ai. Kind of tagline, we’re playing around with the sales classes in session, and we’re going to bring together an aggregate, all of the best sales content, training, both live and on demand, and the nuance is the original. The original vision was let’s bring Netflix for sales and have the algorithm serve up, if you’re learning about ABM, then you better watch Andy’s talk on ABM with this particular person. And we’ve got the AI. Her name is Q and she is actually programmed with the ability to serve up the next best training based on how this platform works. But the most powerful thing that I’ve seen recently is when someone like Keenan gets on and does a one on one meeting with someone, it starts out as a one on 150 people, and then he’s having the conversation and he says, who wants to be coached right now?
And then he promotes someone into the zoom meeting and now he’s coaching and the other 184, get to be voyeurs to the coaching session. Not everybody wants to be on the hot seat like you and I are talking right now, but when they listen to conversations, this, they actually get a lot of business value out of the conversation.
So think of podcasting with the ability of people to chime in and ask questions, give kudos, Hey Chad, good job. Andy was really grilling you with this questions. You can have it a live interactive one-on-one, but in front of a crowd, that’s going to be part of the sales class platform.
Andy Paul: Cool. we’ll have to talk about that.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah.
Andy Paul: All right.
Chad Burmeister: Lots of big things coming up here in the rest of 2020.
Andy Paul: Always fun to talk to someone with a vision. Man with a plan.
Chad Burmeister: Speaking of 2020, did you see the back to the future movie? Apparently when, when they were getting in their vehicle and they were putting a future date of where they want to travel. I haven’t seen the clip myself, but I’ve heard it’s been floating around and it says, Oh, whatever you don’t go to 2020.
Andy Paul: Oh, really? I’ll definitely have to go back and watch that.
Chad Burmeister: I’m going to have to find that one. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I think it’s a great time to be in 2020. I’ve always been a glass half full. I have a good friend, Keenan, who wrote the book Gap Selling, he’s fabulous. him, John Giedon is another very, a good friend of mine and they both have very different views. I saw a great sermon this weekend by TD Jakes, Bishop TD Jakes. And I think that the eyes have been opened, the wool has been pulled off. And I think the conversations that are being had are absolutely game-changing. And so as hard as it is to go through times like this, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. And, I’m most optimistic that will make it to a much better place than we’ve ever been. So that’s, that’s what I have to say about the situation. Yeah. I’m proud of my friends like Keenan and John and I heard TD Jakes speak before and man, it, it’s eyeopening. What, what institutional systematic bias built into, and people don’t mean necessarily. I say people that’s a broad statement. Most people, I think generally have a good heart, but there’s things that are built into the system that are unfair and unjust and people like my daughter recognize that and have been pointing it out to me for two or three years. I’m 47, she’s 17. And, and she’s got better perspective on some of these things than even me and I appreciate and applaud that.
Andy Paul: Yeah, absolutely. I think that if everyone to take a first step is, addition to listening to the people who are saying the important things is things they can do for themselves as great book called Blind Spot, The Hidden Biases of Good People. This book was referred to me several years ago and I’ve brought it up in the workshops I’ve done.
And it talks about the fact that we may think that we’re free of bias. We think we’re, as individuals, but that these biases, you may not think you’re a racist or whatever. And this book isn’t to say that you are, but it’s saying this is, there’s these residual biases that have a huge impact on how we listened to people. How we hear what they’re saying and how we communicate back to people. And you know, it says a lot that we all carry these in us. And so when you read this book, There are links. You can go to the site these authors who are professors from Harvard put together that millions of people have taken these quick assessments and they can be sobering.
They can be sobering when you take them. Cause they, they challenge your perception of yourself and the authors talk about it in the book. I’ve taken some and if nothing else, it just makes you more aware of your worldview and sort of the perspectives that you carry. And if you want to change, it starts with you individually.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah. The thing that you said there was all people have these biases. and so it doesn’t matter if you’re tall, short, skinny, whatever, Old, young, all of it. We all carry these. It’s important that, that we all know that we have those kinds of preconceived notions because that’s how we’ve survived through tens of thousands of years as a human species. To be safe and be protected. And so I think being able to get under that and recognize it helps you move up to, think of it. You’re living on the ground level. What if you could go to 30,000 feet and look down at the patterns of behaviors, man, I think there’s some eye opening things.
Andy Paul: Oh yeah. And it’s just for all of us. And hearing the stories and- my wife, food teachers, that medical college and NYU school of medicine was sharing this video with me of a woman, physician, a black woman physician, giving this Ted Talk about the fact that, there’s still ways that doctors are practicing the medicine based on race as opposed to evidence. And it’s just today still, practices that evolve. If you talk to one specifically that was practiced, and put into practice to justify slavery. And yet doctors today are still basing judgments based on this incredibly racist, approach to medicine. I’m going to be sharing it on social coming up, but it’s wow.
Chad Burmeister: That’s a perfect example. TD gave the example of a, of an iPhone. Now, John refuted this and said, ah, I don’t know. But, and I kept, I was actually making the argument on the other side. It was interesting conversation. TD Jake said, look, when I go to my iPhone and I use facial recognition to turn on the phone, he said it was created by Apple and it was likely created by white people.
And so when it goes to see me, it doesn’t actually see me and it doesn’t work most of the time. And John was like, Oh, come on, mine works a hundred percent of the time. And John has a similar look and feel to TD Jakes. And so he said, ah, that might be user error. And I said, okay, let me take it a step further. When I’m downstairs in my theater room and it’s extremely dark and all that’s there as the flicker of the 120 inch television screen, and I use my Apple iPhone on my face, that’s Italian looking, I would say, although I’m actually more German than Italian, but it has enough light reflected from the screen that it will even open in a very dark room. And he goes, okay, you got me there.
And he said, but what could you change about that? And I said, what you could change is the aperture settings for facial recognition in dark environments so that would actually open that up in a dark room. And I was like, even John, who is a African American amazing football player from CU is saying, Hey, he did a Ted talk called it’s time to give up the race card and YouTube actually changed the title to something other than that, because it’s fairly controversial and he did this Ted talk three or four months ago. But I was kinda making point counterpoint to say, yeah, but even there, even in the FaceTime recognition app, there’s some level of built in bias and his point TD Jakes and perspective was if the AI can’t see me and recognize me, what about people?
Andy Paul: Yeah, that’s absolutely true. And it’s just, yeah. the stories. yeah, I think one of the things that’s really helped in the sense of, bringing more awareness as someone’s side is, everything’s on video these days and it’s one thing to hear the stories and they’re powerful and moving, but then watch the videos and like in Minneapolis and yeah, the impact is, and so maybe that’s for all of us.
Chad Burmeister: Yeah, let me share one more deep perspective while we’re here. I think these are important times and important topics. So think about there was a white couple coming around the corner in a hotel in Mesa, Arizona too, in 2017. And they come running around the corner and two or three cops are there with AR15s pointed at him and says, get down on the ground immediately, get down.
And so we don’t know what led up to that situation. There could have been stuff who knows. I still don’t know the rest of the story. However, what I do know is what I saw on the video for about 10 minutes. And this guy was told to get on the ground, kneel, left leg over the right leg. It was an extremely demeaning conversation.
And I can guarantee you, because I know certain police officers, that wasn’t trained in their training program, they were in a position of power. And I also want to say, Hey look, 99% of police officers are not this way, but this guy. Was being totally lame to the other guy and he here’s what flipped for me.
I could, I said, I, and I had this conversation with Keenan. I could see my son in those shoes or my wife, or I could associate myself being there and being demeaned to a level that was just irresponsible. And then the guy ended up trying to crawl forward cause he was told to crawl and then he said, whatever you don’t put your hands on the ground. They need to be in the air and you need to cry. Have you ever tried to crawl with your hands in the air? It doesn’t work so crawling and he accidentally puts his hand on the ground and then he gets mowed down. And so I was like, Whoa, not only was he demeaned, but he was also murdered. And I could put myself in that shoes and with George, I can put myself in those shoes and I can say that’s fricking wrong and terrible. And so if we all think of ourselves as brothers and sisters, I happen to be a religious, believe in God, we’re brothers and sisters under God. And we are all created by the same maker. Then it doesn’t matter if it’s George, Tony, Johnny, or my sister Lindsey, you need to be able to jump in front of the road and not be the innocent bystandard and take the bullet for your health, your fellow human being. And that’s what I came away with through wrote through all that.
Andy Paul: Yeah. Y u know, for me over the last week is just, you hear the stories from the ordinary Americans, black Americans, just part of their daily life or things that we just can’t identify with because there’s a risk involved from the police. And Amber Ruffin, whose favorite entertainer of mine, she’s a writer and a comedian on the Seth Meyer show late night with Seth Meyers. Has been telling these stories to lead off the episodes this week, skipping down the street and had a cop who was in a car who saw her get off a car and start skipping down the street toward him, pull the gun and make her get down. I’ve never had to worry about my safety when I’m out jogging.
I’ve never had to instruct my kids, have to talk with my kids about. Never had to worry about them coming home at night for running into a police. They’d never been stopped and frisked. It’s to your point, it’s a lot of it is policy that still drives it. If people are interested go to the eightcantwait.org website that talks about the eight policing behaviors that contribute to violence. We need to get serious about changing those policies because they endanger the lives of our fellow citizens
Chad Burmeister: That’s right. I’m optimistic. I can’t even say cautiously optimistic. I’m anxiously optimistic that this is the time. This is the year that’s going to dramatically change a lot of things, for a lot of people so-
Andy Paul: Yeah-
Chad Burmeister: Thanks for having the conversation. I think that was important.
Andy Paul: Yeah. People shouldn’t have to live in fear and that’s what. Alright, Seth- Chad, I’m sorry. I don’t know where I came up with Seth, but
Chad Burmeister: Hey, there we go/
Andy Paul: I was talking about Seth Myers.
I guess that was
Chad Burmeister: On the Andy Paul podcast.
Andy Paul: That’s right. It was always a pleasure talking with you and, we’ll do it again before, too long.
Chad Burmeister: That sounds great. Take care, man.
Andy Paul: Alright. Thanks Chad.